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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:43 pm 
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    Seeing as to how I'm frequently asked about information on self-dimming mirrors, I thought it would be a good idea to start an informative thread outlining how the mirrors work, the different brands and kinds there are, the pros and cons to those different kinds, as well as basic removal and installation instructions. My goal is to make this as thorough as I can, but if you still have some questions I didn't go over, please feel free to ask. I'm not an expert by any means, but I've been fascinated by these mirrors ever since I discovered them 10+ years ago, so I have gathered a decent amount of information about them. Forgive the quality of the pictures. I will update this post when I get a better camera and more ideal lighting.


Quick History & Background

Auto-dimming mirrors are nothing new by any means. The electrochromic technology used to make today's mirrors has been around since the '40s, and has been in use in automotive mirrors since the '80s. The concept of an auto-dimming mirror was first introduced by the Zeeland, Michigan based electro-optical products manufacturer Gentex Corporation. They created the world's first electromechanical mirror in 1982, which found its way into higher end American luxury cars as an option in 1983. It used sensors to detect glare from behind. The sensors were connected to a small motor that would move the angle of the mirror to adjust accordingly. In other words, it basically acted as an automatic version of the flip tab on standard mirrors. These mirrors would be available through '91.

In the meantime, a father and son team of chemists convinced Gentex that they knew how to apply electrochromic technology (a gel that darkens when electrically charged/clears with no charge) to their mirrors. After investing a lot of money for R&D, they found a way to sandwich a thin layer of the gel between 2 pieces of glass, and have it react to an electrical charge initiated by sensors mounted on the front and rear of the mirror when they detected glare. The first electrochromic self-dimming mirror was introduced in '87, and was made available in the '88 Lincoln Continental, and 8 GM cars in '89. They became more commonplace in the early '90s.

It is at this point that Holland, Michigan based Donnelly Corporation, another major automotive mirror manufacturer, came into play. Gentex' auto-dimming mirrors were a huge success, gaining more and more car manufacturer contracts. Donnelly was trying desperately to take back some of the market share by producing mirrors with very similar technology. In may of '90, Gentex sued Donnelly over patent violations. Through a mess of suits and counter suits over the next few years, as well as out of court settlements, things finally cooled down between the companies. In the meantime, Gentex continued to expand upon what they started with their mirrors. In '93, they introduced the first self-dimming mirrors with a compass that showed the direction you were headed in a little digital display within the mirror itself. These mirrors would become available on '94 model year luxury cars. From '97 - '98, cars would start receiving self dimming outside mirrors, inside mirrors that displayed compass as well as outside temperature, and compass mirrors with LED map lights, which were ONLY available as an option on the Intrigue GLS in '98. The GLS also had this same mirror available in an OnStar equipped version.

Fast forwarding to today, Gentex has grown immensely, and is regarded as the leading company in auto-dimming mirrors with distribution in several countries, including Germany and Japan. They have expanded their contracts to almost all car manufacturers around the world, and self-dimming mirrors are no longer something reserved for higher end luxury cars. They can be found in all sorts of makes and models in many variations. The features have also increased dramatically, including versions with HomeLink, back-up camera and navigation. Meanwhile, Donnelly lost a lot of ground in the war for market share since 2000, and is virtually non-existent in the manufacturer's contract department.


Gentex vs. Donnelly Pros & Cons

Being the 2 major producers of auto-dimming mirrors, these two have been dueling each other for a couple decades now. Virtually every feature Gentex came out with, Donnelly would copy. However, the 2 companies took a very different approach as far as aesthetics. Donnellys had more of an "egg shape" to them, especially if they had temp and compass, because they put the display for those in the base of the mirror as opposed to in the mirrors themselves like Gentex does. The front of a Gentex mirror looks more like traditional mirrors, but with a bit of an extension at the middle of the bottom for the buttons. Personally, I prefer the way Gentex' look a lot more, but that's subjective. One plus for Donnelly mirrors is that they are much more commonly available with map lights. Since most of the vehicles that Gentex' originated in were luxury, or well equipped, they usually already had some kind of fancy overhead console or dome light, so they scarcely received map lights in the mirrors.


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[SIZE="2"]Fully optioned Donnelly mirror.[/SIZE]

However, this and all other advantages for Donnelly mirrors are a moot point because of one monumental problem they're prone to which renders them useless. Donnellys are notorious for breaking and leaking the liquid inside of them, often causing discoloration in the paint when the liquid eventually drips onto the center console. Why is not completely known. However, I mentioned the legal troubles between the 2 companies earlier, and that Donnelly had to change their methods of accomplishing the auto-dimming effect due to patent infringements. My theory is that whatever they did to change the process for auto-dimming, it was an inferior process with poor reliability/durability. On the other hand, I've never really heard of a Gentex mirror failing in any capacity (certainly not by leaking out the gel). It is for this reason that I usually suggest people switch to a Gentex when their Donnelly mirrors finally fail, which they inevitably will.

Mmkay, now for the good stuff you've been waiting for.


Removing and installing auto-dimming mirrors

Removing factory auto-dimming mirrors from the windshield

*DISCLAIMER: The process for removing mirrors with the newer mounting style can put your windshield at risk for cracking or breaking. I am not responsible for any damage. Attempt at your own risk!

This will actually be the hardest part of adding/replacing an auto-dimming mirror. Rather than using the traditional, easy-to-remove single torx screw to tighten the mirror onto the windshield button, newer auto-dimming mirrors have a tensioned spring with tabs in the brackets that, once the tabs clear the windshield button, locks it into place, making removal a serious pain by comparison. To get an idea of what you’re dealing with, here is a mirror off the car with the spring/tabs exposed (tabs circled in blue). It is this spring that has to be pushed in towards the mirror so that the tabs on the spring will clear the mounting button, allowing the bracket to slide up and over it.

ImageImage


You will basically have to insert a small slotted screwdriver into the slot opening at the bottom of the mirror bracket’s base, and gently tap at the screwdriver (preferably with a rubber mallet) till it pushes the tab back far enough to clear the button. The screwdriver is in far enough when it won’t fall back out with little force, but at the same time, not so snug that it takes a lot of force to get it unstuck. Take your time, and check to see if it’s at this point with every few taps. Driving the screwdriver in too far can cause the windshield to crack or break. Here’s an off the car visual to give you an idea of what you’re looking for.

ImageImage


At this point, the mirror bracket should slide out by gently lifting UP on the mirror while wiggling it back and forth.

Image

Again, I have to stress to be extremely careful with the removal of these mirrors. The process itself sounds straightforward and easy enough, but the springs are often stubborn, so you have to be very cautious not to exert enough force to break the windshield.

Tip: If you do not feel comfortable trying to remove the mirror yourself, skip to the wiring so that’s in place, and then take the vehicle to a glass or body shop to pop the mirror off. Most will remove rear view mirrors for $10 - $15, and many will even do it for free! Same with reattaching mirrors that have fallen off!



Replacing/swapping factory auto-dimming mirrors

If your vehicle already came with a Donnelly or Gentex, and you're looking to swap mirrors for more features, or because your Donnelly broke, then this will be a fairly easy process, as all the essential wiring will already be there. The first thing you will need to determine is if you have the older style 3-pin harness, or the newer style 7-pin harness, as illustrated below.

Image

If you have the newer 7-pin style with only 3 wires coming out of it, then this will be a direct plug and play. If it is a 7-pin, but there are more than 3 wires present (i.e. your current mirror has map lights), then you will simply pull out the extra wires from the harness, and either cut them off at a point where you can’t see them anymore, or if you’d prefer to keep them in tact, wrap up the tips to prevent any electrical problems, and tuck them away in the headliner. You can then just plug in your existing harness into the new mirror.

If you have the older 3-pin harness, this will still be an easy swap, just slightly more time consuming/involved. Without loosing the order the wires are aligned in, remove the pins from the old harness with a small flat screwdriver. Do the same for the wires coming out of the harness on the new/replacement mirror.

Image Image
Image

Next, with the new harness facing in the direction it will be in when plugged into the mirror, and the wires from your vehicle aligned in the same order they were in when removed from the old harness, push the wires from your vehicle into the pinouts in the new harness from right to left. A pin-out is provided after the next section.

Image Image

Image Image



Installing auto-dimming mirrors in non-factory equipped vehicles

If your vehicle came from the factory with a standard mirror, don't worry. An auto-dimming mirror can be installed into ANY vehicle with a very small amount of electrical know-how. All it will require is one wire running to a +12v that powers on with the accessories, and one grounded wire. The self dimming and compass features are self contained and need only that one power wire to function. The 3rd wire automatically disables the self-dimming feature when the vehicle is put into reverse, but most people seldom wire it, as it is an unimportant feature and not worth the trouble. If you have a mirror that shows outside temp, you will need to get a temp sensor as well, and run a wire from the sensor to the mirror. Whether you have a 3-pin, or 7-pin harness, the following is the correct wiring for the majority of auto-dimming mirrors with or without compass when looking at the front of the mirror with the harness plugged in. Obviously ignore the 7th pin if your replacement mirror doesn’t have map lights.


Image


And that’s all there is to it! If you have any questions I haven’t gone over, please feel free to ask. BTW, I have amassed a rather large collection of fancy mirrors of all types, and will be posting a thread for them in the classifieds section soon. I will provide a link here when I do. All my mirrors are tested prior to sale as well. As a general idea, an auto-dimming Gentex or Donnelly is $55 shipped within the continental US. A Gentex with a compass or Donnelly with map lights is $70 shipped.

EDIT: Got a bunch of mirrors listed here: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=30944

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Last edited by RareGMFan on Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:39 pm 
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Great thread bud. Good to see this info being passed on for the benefit of the forums.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:43 pm 
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I can attest to those PITA springs...

Never broke a windshield though... Now that I have officially jinxed myself...

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:12 pm 
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My 2000 Bonneville SSEi has this mirror, which I assume is stock:

Image

Mine does not seem to work. As far as I can tell, it never dims. I heard that you test it by holding your finger over the sensor during the daytime, and you should see it dim. I am assuming that the sensor is on the left side of the buttons? I've held my finger over this opening, and nothing changes. There is a green light to the right of the "AUTO" button. The switches turn the green light on and off correctly, and I tested it with the green light on. Is there anything else to check, or does it simply require replacement?

Also, it is a bit loose and jiggles a lot more than the car while driving. Is there any way to tighten it up and make it more stable?

Ken_W

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:08 pm 
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Actually, there should be a photocell sensor on the BACK (facing the windshield) of the mirror that's identical to the front. That's the one you actually want to cover while in bright/daylight to test the mirror. It's possible that it's just dead, but I have never heard of a Gentex mirror failing, so it would be pretty rare if it is. Try that first and see what happens.

As for it being loose, if your mirror uses the tension spring style mount as outlined in the write-up, there is no way to "tighten" it per se. It's either snug, or it's not. It really shouldn't be loose unless something is broken on the mount, and I can't see how that would happen. However, I HAVE seen some of these newer style mirrors that use the torx screws to tighten them onto the windshield (must have been a transition period in there somewhere). I would check to see if that's how yours is mounted, because those DO come loose over time. All you'd have to do is re-tighten the screw.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:29 pm 
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Sorry for the Zombie thread... but it is the perfect one.

I am yanking a mirror from my 02 Bonnie that has onstar/autodim/mic on it. It has a 16 pin connector and I want to put it in my 01 Intrigue that has a 7 pin connector.

Any help on the pinouts would be great!

Craig


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:48 am 
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Ken_W wrote:
Also, it is a bit loose and jiggles a lot more than the car while driving. Is there any way to tighten it up and make it more stable? Ken_W

Mine is loose because of a recall. When the dealer did the recall work and I got the car back, the mirror was no longer tight. I hate having someone else work on my cars. Every time I do, I have to clean up the mess they make. It never fails! - BC

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:15 pm 
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If someone could help with an adapter or pin out I would be quite grateful!

Just to be clear:

Bonnie has: 16 Pin Gentex GNTX-261
The 'Trigue has a 7 Pin standard plug.

I have no clue what the pinout is on the Gentex nor the 'Trigue's harness.

Craig


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:01 pm 
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Hey, sorry I didn't see this sooner. Here's the OnStar harness pinouts:

Image

Only difference on the Bonneville ones is they didn't get a compass or temp, but got map lights, so Pin 1 is for the map lights coming on with the interior lights, and Pin 6 is for them to come on individually (might have those reversed, but those are the 2 pins used for the map lights).


As for the one in the Intrigue, the diagram in my original post should cover that. You should have a Gentex, but regardless of brand, the pinouts are almost always set up the exact same on the 7-pin harnesses. Pin 1 is power, Pin 2 is ground, and Pin 3 is "disable auto dim in reverse", which is entirely up to you on whether you want to wire that in or not. Doesn't effect mirror functionality in any other capacity, and since must people find it an unnecessary feature, they don't bother to custom wire it in.

As a fun fact, the Intrigue GLS got a very rare Gentex mirror as an option. Gentex with map lights are hard to come by, but the GLS got one with auto dim, compass and LED map lights. I *think* there was a Lincoln and Chrysler or 2 that also got the same mirror (I know the later Gen I Sebrings got a version of the same exact mirror, but without a compass/just auto-dim + LED map lights). Regardless, very hard to come across. And despite how much I've learned about these fancy mirrors, I always seem to come across more new info/discoveries. For example, last summer, I found a GLS in the yard, and ran over to it all excited. Came to find there was an OnStar mirror in it, so I was disappointed. But curiosity told me to check something for the hell of it anyway. I get in the car, look underneath the mirror, and sure enough, it had LED map lights like the non-OnStar version!! So auto-dimmming, compass, LED map lights AND OnStar! Didn't know such a thing existed till that day. Naturally, I had to add it to my collection. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:19 pm 
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My '93 SSEi must have the Gentex dimming mirror as it's still working.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:31 am 
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I never understood the need for auto-dimming mirrors or the tons of R&D spent on developing them, when a flip-tab and a 15-cent piece of glass in a standard rear-view mirror do the same thing.

Still, cool thread.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:03 am 
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Oh I hate the flip thingy. Autodim is just another one of those little comforts that add up to a nicer driving experience. If only we had autodim side mirrors...

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:19 am 
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yourgrandma wrote:
Oh I hate the flip thingy. Autodim is just another one of those little comforts that add up to a nicer driving experience. If only we had autodim side mirrors...
See, for side view mirrors that makes a little more sense to me; you have to take your eyes off the road and look at the side view mirror and futz with it when you're getting glared, to angle it away, and then you lose the use of the mirror. But the rearview? It's *right there*. Just reach up and flip the tab. Done. It's like turning the radio off or something.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:04 pm 
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Bugsi wrote:
I never understood the need for auto-dimming mirrors or the tons of R&D spent on developing them, when a flip-tab and a 15-cent piece of glass in a standard rear-view mirror do the same thing.


This is true. But then again, same can be said for many features. Why get a heads up display if your speed, turn signals, etc are right there just below the windshield? It's not like you have to take your eyes way off the road to see them. Why have steering wheel controls on the radio when the radio is just a few inches away from your right hand anyway? In other words, by that mentality, there's no reason to get anything other than a stripped down base model of a car. That's the point of amenities. Most of them are luxuries that are not necessarily needed, but make the driving experience either safer, and/or more enjoyable. Every little bit that you can do to keep your eyes on the road and hands on the wheel is possibly one less accident that would have resulted from "I just took my eyes off the road a millisecond to (insert action here)".

Also, an auto-dimming mirror is a lot more versatile than a conventional mirror. Just flipping a tab gives you only one state of glare deflection. An auto-dimming mirror ranges GREATLY in how dark it gets. Anywhere from you can't even tell without seeing it next to a mirror that's not dimmed at all, to pitch black, and everything in between. It adjusts how dim it gets for the level of brightness behind you as opposed to a one size fits all tab flip.



yourgrandma wrote:
If only we had autodim side mirrors...


Trust me, you don't want them. At least not if you plan on keeping the car for a number of years. As awesome of a feature as it is (it's annoying to be blinded by lights in the side mirrors when the interior one is nice and dim), they are quite prone to breaking regardless of which brand makes them. I'm guessing it's from being exposed to the elements for so many years.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:36 pm 
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The auto-dim side mirror failures I've seen are from leaking. If that were able to be prevented...

I love auto-dim. The flip tab on the LeSabre was not enough to overcome HIDs while the SSEi auto-dim mirror has no trouble.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:02 pm 
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As long as autodim is working, I'm fine with it. We have it in our Chrysler T&C van, and it's fine. Regarding flipping the tab -vs- heads-up-displays & car radio controls, that's actually what I was saying: Those other gadgets actually *do* have you taking your eyes off the road, where flipping the tab doesn't require looking at it (at least not for me.) That's why I said "like turning off the radio" as opposed to something like "programming the radio stations into your radio" or "checking your speedometer."

I wouldn't extend the flip-tab mirror simplicity to the logical extreme of only buying a stripped-down car unless I was participating in a disingenuity contest.

I dunno, do you guys really take your eyes off the road to adjust tab-style rearview mirrors?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:03 pm 
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According to the FSM, the correct method for removing a rear view mirror from the windshield is to grasp it with the palm of your left hand against the mirror glass on the driver's side and the palm of your right hand against the back of the mirror on the passenger side and snap it sharply down and to the left. I used this method when I swapped out the inside mirror on my Aurora a few months ago and it worked fine, in that it left the anchor button attached to the glass. The Aurora's mirror was self-dimming but had no compass and I upgraded to one with the compass. The compass mirror had the anchor button still attached--including a bit of glass from the windshield of the donor car--and that button was a pain to remove. Once I got it off, the mirror just snapped right into place. I did have to go to a nearby shopping mall and drive around in circles to get it properly calibrated.

The mirror stayed put for about four months before the anchor button finally let go. I had bought a mirror adhesive kit before I did the swap, but didn't need it at the time. I was glad I'd just left it in the center console because it was easy having everything on hand to do the fix. Come to think of it, I think I've had to re-glue the mirror on just about every GM car I've owned.

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