http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfil ... ml#baldwin

This guy, for some reason, made a huge study of 30 brands of oil filters in 1999, and then updated it in 2008. Very interesting read.

All of the filters recommended here at the Club got good marks, save one: AC Delco Duragard. It seems that AC Delco no longer makes oil filters, but contracted that out to the same company that makes STP and other brands. The filters are not as good as they once were, and thusly the filters are no longer on the recommended list of this guy. (Beast00: I suggest you remove AC Delco from the 3800 Maintenance List's recommended oil filters.)

AMSOIL - recommended
Purolator, including PureOne - recommended
Wix - recommended
Mobile1 - recommended.

The guy's favorite filter is the Baldwin B2 line, which can be hard to find.

He writes that Fram Tough Guard is the ONLY Fram filter worth considering. All others are to be avoided.

Not recommended: AC Delco, STP, Pennzoil, and others (read the article).

The guy gives a LOT of info and data to support his conclusions, for those who are curious.

Ken_W

_________________
2000 SSEi "Gypssei" - 206k miles - Light Bronzemist Metallic - stock
1999 Grand Am GT - 168k miles - Red - stock DEAD -- transmission died
2004 Pontiac Montana Ext 2WD - 207k miles - Blue Black Metallic - stock

The thing is: The AC Delco still has to meet GM's specifications for filter quality, filtration area, flow rate, etc. How can I say that what the OEM recommends is wrong based one one guy's analysis, a guy whom I don't know from Adam, and has no qualifications that I can see from any scientific firms, labs or universities. For all I know this guy was fired from Champion labs and has a vendetta against them, or hates AC Delco for some other reason, and wove that into his analysis?

I recommend people do their own research and come to their own conclusions based on how they use their car and how much money they want to spend.

Plus, my list is my recommendations. If someone wants to run a Fram or whatever, that's their choice. I can advise them otherwise, but I cannot, short of holding a gun to their head, force them to do anything they don't want to do.

That's my opinion on this.

_________________
Bye Bye:

RIP sandrock

He forgot one filter in that test which is regarded as one of the best filters on the market.... Mann. Everyone in the Euro car world uses them, and I know that there is one that fits the 3800, I just don't remember the part number.

_________________
2012 Grand Cherokee Overland Summit - Hemi
1996 Thunderbird LX - 3.8

Agreed about the AC Delco. I saw this guys' write up years ago.

I'll listen to what a bunch of PhD's in engineering, who've spent countless hours of R&D, spec'ing out, and building oil filters specific for their engine's needs, warranty requirements, and general use vs. some guy who probably has a GED, cuts apart oil filters in his garage, takes general measurements, and notes construction techniques, and arrives at a conclusion.

Not to mention, he is specifically using these filters for his CHRYSLER product. So naturally some AC Delco, Motorcraft, or manufacturer specific brand filter might not be the best choice for a CHRYSLER vehicle. Chrysler (and ford), also recommend different viscosity and weight of oils vs. GM (I.E. AC Delco). Chrysler likes 5W-20, vs. GM and 5W-30. These also generate substantial differences in flow rates, flow resistances, burst rates, PSI rates, etc, etc.

Lets also add, that not all filters are the same design. Some have anti-drain back valves, some have check balls in them (another anti-drainback feature), etc... Point here is the design of an AC PF47 used on your 3.8's, isn't the same design and construction as a Purolator L10241 I use on our Chrysler product's 3.8. AC Delco doesn't even make one for that application. Therefore any attempts to disect and come to an analysis on which is the better design/construction is done in vain.

I will tell you this, in the application like my "V" GM specifically states that you use the GM filter or your warranty will be voided if an engine fault is deemed to be due to an oil filter! Yes, Mobil 1, Amsoil, Royal Purple all make ones that FIT the vehicle, but the doesn't mean it's the best option. It states to specifically use AC Delco PF-26 Why? There are certain features to the OEM filter, especially pertaining to flow rate and burst pressure that are specific to the gerator style oil pump the 4.4L S/C V8 uses vs. standard oil pumps. Average oil pressure in the "V" is roughly 100psi. Some WOT runs, you can see upwords of 160psi. It uses all that oil pressure to keep tension on the cam chains I gather from reading. The flow rate is somewhere in the 12+ gallon per minute area too. Most standard oil filters are tested up to 3 - 4 gallons.

Putting a filter that can't withstand that pressure and flow rate, would put the filter into bypass mode essentially, meaning that it isn't filtering a *dang* thing, if it hasn't burst by that time.

So yea, for his particular application(s) in Chrysler products, his conclusion might be ok. For my GM applications, I'll stick with those "not recommended" AC Delco's!

We haven't even gotten into filters meant to work with DexOS1 and DexOS2 oiling spec requirments of all new GM engines!

_________________


Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck

Okay; good points all around... I withdraw my previous proposal to amend the Club's recommendation. I just want to make sure we give good recommendations on the maintenance list, because some members rely on it heavily and do not do any other research.

(FWIW, the author is an electrical engineer, and not some random schmuck. This does not change the validity of any of the responding posts -- just want to make sure the guy isn't slammed unfairly.)

Ken_W

_________________
2000 SSEi "Gypssei" - 206k miles - Light Bronzemist Metallic - stock
1999 Grand Am GT - 168k miles - Red - stock DEAD -- transmission died
2004 Pontiac Montana Ext 2WD - 207k miles - Blue Black Metallic - stock

Being an electrical engineer lends next to nothing to analyzing oil filters, IMHO. Unless he was an expert in the field and had references to back him up, he essentially is a random schmuck.

CMNT, I'd like to hear about the DexOS filters and requirements, either in a different thread or via PM. I don't want any issues with my parent's new Suburban.

_________________
Bye Bye:

RIP sandrock

Ed, it's dexos1, not Dexos. IIRC the filters are the same, but the oil goes above and beyond API SN and ILSAC GF-5 specifications for turbocharger protection (important for me) and a few other things. It's strict enough to need at least a semi-synthetic base oil and a good additive package. ACDelco bulk dexos1 oil is semi-syn. If your 'Burb requires it, run it. If it just "recommends" it, it's fine without it. My Cruze requires dexos1 oil thanks to the snail in the exhaust.

_________________
2012 Chevrolet Cruze Eco - Current car

1999 Buick LeSabre Custom - Former car

Learn from the mistakes of others, that way when you mess up you can do so in new and interesting ways.

Pretty sure the manual recommended Dexos1, but didn't require it. I know the Active Fuel Management engines eat oil, so that's why I'm asking.

_________________
Bye Bye:

RIP sandrock

I have not read any different requirements as of yet pertaining to filters running on cars specifically requiring GM's Dexos1 or Dexos2 standards. However, that being said, anything the oil touches, I would presume will get some form of a review and possibly revision if necessary. Reason being, engines with VVT, DoD, as well as just in general higher oil pressures, put different quantities and loads on the oiling system. A G8 for example, with it's DoD, uses 8 or 8.5 quarts of oil I believe. That's a big jump from the 6.5 in my little 'ol LS1, for an engine in the same family. My little 4.4 in the "V" takes 9 quarts (VVT on a multi-cam motor). Any filter in any lubrication system is a key component from flow, pressure, as well as resistance on the system.

I have noticed that both PF47 I use on 3.8's and the PF46 I use on the GTO have had some construction differences vs. previous filters I've had on the cars over the years. Whether that's just continual improvement of the product, or changes subtley made to meet Dexos standards, I can not say. GM may not make a big deal about it, simply to avoid possible confusion and just push through the changes to the filters unbeknownst to you or I.

Ed, as to your parents new 'Burban, I think some 2010 engines had Dexos requirements (obviously theirs is gas, so DexOS1), but all 2011+ are DexOS standard.

GM has to license the oil manufacturer to be DexOS compliant. Obviously it needs the pretty little logo on the front, but also an 11 digit license number on the back of the container to be truly DexOS compliant. The manufacturer of the oil just can't slap the logo on the front. They need that license from GM.

Here is a list of oils currently DexOS licensed;
http://www.gmdexos.com/licensedbrands.html

One thing I want to note to all the Royal Purple and Amsoil nutswingers... YOUR OIL HAS NOT BEEN CERTIFIED BY GM TO BE DEXOS COMPLIANT!!!

Mobil 1 has though, along with some Quaker State and Pennzoil oils... Also, DexOS oils are backward compliant. They are ok to use in any older engine as DexOS requirements supercede GM-LL-A-025, GM6094M, and GM4718M requirements. If the manual recommended DexOS, but not required it, you can use really any oil you like. But of they state to specifically use DexOS oils, you need to use the new oil.

_________________


Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck

That 'Burb should be golden on pretty much any Xw-30 SM or SN oil. I'd run a synthetic just to be sure the oil's stout enough to run out the OLM.

If I tried running a non-dexos1 oil in the Cruze, it'd be plain dumb. It's DOHC, dual VVT, and turbo. Add all that up and it spells trouble for pretty much any conventional oil, and most non-dexos1 blends.

Valvoline/Ashland basically told GM to stuff it, they're not paying to have their oils licensed. So no Valvoline/Ashland oils until they're dexos1. Ashland is saying the oil is "equivalent" to dexos1. I'm sure it'd be just fine, but knowing that the powertrain warranty would be through Ashland instead of GM is a big turnoff.

_________________
2012 Chevrolet Cruze Eco - Current car

1999 Buick LeSabre Custom - Former car

Learn from the mistakes of others, that way when you mess up you can do so in new and interesting ways.

I know, I'm a Valvoline fan.

They can say it's "equivalent" all they want because they don't want to pay for the license, but when all the sudden sales drop off because one of the largest auto manufacturer's out there, using this standard worldwide (not just the U.S.), won't list their oil as a certified brand, I bet they come asking for that stick back that they told GM to "stuff it" with!

_________________


Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck

It's gotten 2 fills of 5W-30 Penz. Platinum, which is spec'd on that site and a Wix Filter.

I hate how tiny that filter is for 6 quarts of oil on a friggin Suburban....

_________________
Bye Bye:

RIP sandrock

That's what I said when the LS1 first came out. Your engine in the 'Burban is a cast iron version and I believe is the same PF-46 (or whatever the Wix cross-reference is).

GM's thought is, they'd rather have oil in the engine doing it's job of lubricating and cooling vs. wasting time filtering in a filter.

I know a lot of guys used to like to run a longer version of the 46 (can't remember what number it is), on their LSx's and it's always got into a heated debate. Really that extra length/size isn't going to amount to a measurable amount of extra filtration, and if a greater quantity of oil is in that filter getting an immeasurable amount of extra filtration, it isn't in the engine doing it's job. If GM wanted the longer filter on there, they'd have put it on from the factory.

We may question a lot of stuff GM does, but one thing they do well and do exhaustive R&D on is their lubrication systems.

_________________


Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck

Our old suburban used the PF-61, spec'd for the 02 4x4, and the newer ones got the PF-46, which I always replaced where I worked with the larger filter. It now spec's the PF-48, which is different, the threaded hole is larger (22.5mm v. 13/16") and the filter is short. Not happy about it....

_________________
Bye Bye:

RIP sandrock

Why be pissed about it? That extra inch of length isn't translating into another 50% of extra filtration. IF it were, then yes, I'd be converting too. But in the meantime, you're holding up that extra oil in that longer filter, which means it's not in the engine doing it's job.

_________________


Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck

CMNTMXR57 -- could one infer, based upon what you've written above, that you use only AC Delco filters in your GM vehicles? Do you feel that other brands, with different designs, are risky because they may not have undergone GM's rigorous scrutiny?

Ken_W

_________________
2000 SSEi "Gypssei" - 206k miles - Light Bronzemist Metallic - stock
1999 Grand Am GT - 168k miles - Red - stock DEAD -- transmission died
2004 Pontiac Montana Ext 2WD - 207k miles - Blue Black Metallic - stock

For a GM vehicle typically YES! GM designed their oiling system with their components in mind. One of those is filters. Anything outside of that, they can't control the parameters/standards of.

We question a lot of GM's logic on many of these boards, but lets face it, one thing they have their bases pretty well covered on, is their lubrication systems. If not, they'd be out of business from replacing engines left and right under warranty from failed systems.

And just so you know, I have Mopar filters on our Chrysler van. I have other oil issues with that thing, but as far as what Chrysler engineered it with, they did with OEM parts.

Are there other suitable choices that fit any vehicle. Yes! But that doesn't mean it's the best for it. Will they work? I'm sure they will, and you'll get many happy miles out of your vehicle with them. But when in question, especially relating to worrying about warranties, go with what it came with from the factory and you'll never go wrong.

Much like oil itself (which is another pandoras box), most here will never, ever, ever push their oil and/or filters up against any of their maximum thresholds! So arguing over which oil gives .0000000000000000000000000001% better lubricity, or which filter gives .0000000000000000000000000001% better filtration, based on an analysis by an electrical technician, in his garage, cutting apart various brands of filters, can sometimes be maddening.

At the end of the day, my advice is (and has always been), I don't care what you put in/on it, as long as you stick to a regular, consistent change and/or maintenance schedule, you'll be alright with whatever you choose to use, based on your wallet, personal preference, what lets you sleep better at night, etc...

_________________


Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck