I thought I would like it, but I prefer my Series I. I have been driving my dad's '97 Park Avenue Ultra on occasion, and I hate to say it, but I don't quite think it is for me. The biggest reason? Torque. With the series 1, even with the 2.84 gearing, on a good day, it really sets you back in the seat. Even with the supercharged series II in the Ultra, there is no thrills, no chills, it just goes. It gets up to speed with no drama, no excitement, nothing fancy. I don't know if that is torque management talking either though. Although maybe it is just me, all the fun of playing around is getting up to speed, I don't find high speeds thrilling.

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~Randall~


1993 Buick Park Avenue - 197k - Some odds and ends done - Simply won't die
1994 Buick Regal - 78k - Bone stock - Always ready for a good kicking
1990 Oldsmobile 88 - Gone to a better place

Way to make the series II answer lame sounding!

I dunno. My L26 will set me back in my seat

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2005 GXP - White Gold Pearl, no mods...yet.
2000 SSEi - Resurrection in progress. Built L67 w/L32 fuel rail, ported heads, and cam. Camaro front brake system, GXP cluster, and much more in planning.

IMO, a SII L67 in a PAU is in a class all by itself. It's just pretty boring. The SII L67 in the GTP is a lot more fun. Less torque management, better gear ratio. Same goes for the same power train in the GS.

In a Bonneville, NA, I'd take the L36 anyday over the L27. I'm a huge fan of the L36.

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2012 Ford Fusion SEL, 2012 Chrysler Town & Country, 2007 Chevy Silverado LT, 1999 Pontiac Firehawk, 1979 Pontiac Trans Am

I've owned both, the Series II is superior in all aspects to me except the famed UIM failure, which can be overcome.

Wow. You did a good job at making the series II S/C seem gutless. I remember one time I put the hammer down and I was in the front seat when I hit the binders at 127 I was in the back seat.

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Bonneville Forum COTM Sept. 09
Pontiac Bonneville Club COTM Dec. 09

Series I fan here. Might be a bigger Series III fan, and not even know it yet, not having owned one.

Nothing quite beats my love for the LM7 though. Just wish one would work with a bonneville.

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John
Now: '15 Toyota Prius III | 134 hp 2ZR-FXE | Silver | 36k
Now: '03 Honda CR-V AWD | Slow 4-Cylinder | Dirt | 180k
Then: '07 Ford Fusion SEL | 221hp Gen I VVT Duratec 3.0 V6 | Tungsten Silver | 150k
Then: '99 Toyota Avalon XL | 200hp 1MZ-FE 3.0 V6 | Diamond White | 189k | Sold: July 2015
Then: '11 Ford Fusion SEL | 240hp Gen II VVT Duratec 3.0 V6 | Ingot Silver | 84k | Totaled: Oct 23 '14 (Rear-Ended)
Then: '96 Buick Park Avenue Ultra | 240hp Series II L67 | Medium Dark Lichen | Bought: JAN 11 @ 135k | Accident: FEB 3 '12 | Crushed: MAR 1 '13 @ 153K
Then: '98 Pontiac Bonneville SSE | 205hp Series II 3800 L36 | Topaz Firemist | Bought: NOV '09 @ 74k | Accident: MAY 28 '10 | Crushed: MAR 15 '11 @ 84k
Then: '93 Pontiac Bonneville SE | 170hp Series I 3800 L27 | Dark Yellow Green | Bought: JULY '07 @ 92k | Sold: JULY '12 @ 118k
Then: '89 Pontiac Bonneville LE | 165hp 3800 LN3 | Medium Garnet Red | Bought: JAN '05 @ 117k | Sold: SEP 30 '07 @ 152k

I dunno, floor my Buick at 35 mph and it will give you a whole new love for the L36...
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-Dan
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2012 Nissan Maxima SV Premium • Super Black • Charcoal • VQ35DE • Bose • Factory HID • 5000k LED Int/Ext
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__I n n o v a t i o n__T h a t __E x c i t e s

I currently own and drive both a Series I and Series II L67 and I can honestly say that I will take the Series II any day of the week. My '03 will flat out smoke my '93 at the drop of a hat.

I do like the screaming style whine the Series I gives off better, but still, the overall powerband of the Series II is much better for me

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Ryan

2003 Bonneville SSEi - The Black Mirror SOLD!
2002 Bonneville SE - The Mutt Complete 2004 SLE interior, drivetrain, and body harness swap, ECC swap, HUD swap, black GXP wheels, GXP headlights and tinted tails - SOLD
2003 BMW 540i M Sport, 2001 BMW X5 4.4i, 2010 GMC Acadia, 2017 Grand Design Imagine 3150BH
1982 Cutlass Supreme - The fun one

I've had nothing but problems with the series 2, so at best, I'd say the series 1, but if there was an option to say neither, I probably would

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2013 A4 P+ ------------------ Glacier White Metallic
6MT, Sport Pkg, JHM Stage 1 Clutch/LWFW, JHM Short Shifter, JHM HFC, USP SS Clutch Line, CR-15 Strut Bar, Alu Kreuz, BFI Shift Knob, EC Trans Mount Insert, VCDS tweaks.

I wouldn't mind a broader powerband. Sure, there's great low-end torque, but the S1 falls flat way too fast.

I'm gonna put my vote in for S2.

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Jerry /// Past: 95 SSEi (June 2010 COTM) -- 04 GXP (July 2011 COTM)
91 Honda Civic Wagon DX 2WD (fuelly) -- 208,000km -- 92hp -- Autocross Warrior
09 Lexus LS460 AWD -- 94,000km -- Daily Driver
09 White Hot G8 GT -- 155,000km (fuelly) -- LS3 Cam -- GM LS3 CNC Ported Heads -- Kooks 1 3/4" Long Tube Headers -- Solo Catback Midsection -- Hooker Maxflow Mufflers -- Pat G Tune -- Rotofab Intake -- Tein S-Tech Springs -- GXP FE3 Dampers -- BMR Subframe Cradle Inserts -- BMR Subframe Connectors -- Forgestar F14 Gold 18x9 +40 -- Michelin Pilot Super Sport 245/45/18 -- Maverick Man Carbon Fiber Spoiler

Interesting statement here. Maybe it is a torque management thing. Although, I have learned since the initial post that my dad thinks he is hearing it pinging on occasion. It may not be on it's game right now

A good person to chime in I guess would be Gonneville, as he would have an idea how it did after getting the torque management toned down with his PCM.

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~Randall~


1993 Buick Park Avenue - 197k - Some odds and ends done - Simply won't die
1994 Buick Regal - 78k - Bone stock - Always ready for a good kicking
1990 Oldsmobile 88 - Gone to a better place

Yeah, torque management is a huge problem for the PAU, but then again, comparing it to a GTP is also like comparing apples and watermelons...the PAU is a BIG car, and it drives like it. Now, comparing the 97+ Ultra to the 92-95 Ultra, yeah, the S1 is a little punchier, but just like the Bonneville, it's hard to use all that low-end torque.

I think the biggest difference in the way the S1 Ultra and the 97+ Ultra perform is the suspension. The semi-trailing set-up on the 97+ puts down better slalom numbers and grip than the 92-96 cars, but it just doesn't FEEL like it...The car FEELS like it rolls a lot more than it actually does, it's weird.

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~Brian -- 98 Park Avenue Ultra-- DEFUNCT. Blew the rings in a front cylinder
Mods: Too *dang* many...Click the siggy...
13.87 @ 101.40mph, Kil-Kare Raceway, 10/15/09

I can't vote....I'm caught between all of them... They all respond well to mods....

2.84s slow the car down immensely!

All 3800's fall on their face around 4k RPMs. In 50k of ownership my L27 never let me down once, just needed oil changes. An L36 wont do that. Supercharged, the L32 is clearly the best.

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Jason Z - Exposed Autos

2001 BMW 330i - Titanium Silver - Sport Package - 3 Pedals - Koni Yellow/H&R Sport
2006 Volkswagen GTI - (gone) Tornado Red - DSG, Stage II~280hp/325tq
1993 Pontiac Bonneville - (gone) Purple Pearl H4U/SLE. Loud

Where is the 6.0L option?
Haha kidding...
Series 1 wasn't bad, just had to mod it right

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2016 Dodge Charger Scat Pack 392
3.09's 8 Speed Auto
04 GTP

I have driven all three gens (n/a only in series I) and by far the series III is better, the series I is a good reliable motor but it was not exactly a monster my bonne (2000 ssei) certainly is not lacking in torque, pretty much chirp the tires any time I want to when starting out and I can burn em pretty easy as well the series III's I have driven are all GP's I my mother has an 04 GT and it drives really well, it's not as fast as my bonne but it feels like it, I think the gearing has something to do with that I also drove an 07 GT(L32) and it was fast but it wasn't very exciting I want to drive a comp G to see how it feel compared with the 07 GT with the same motor

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2000 ssei gone but not forgotten

Current fleet:
2009 G8 v6, 2009 Avalanche LTZ, 2013 Volt

What's your proof? You've never owned an L36.

I've had several and found them all to be extremely reliable. Aside from the one time fix of aluminium LIM gaskets and flushing out the dex, they're just as reliable as the L27 or L67s.

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2012 Ford Fusion SEL, 2012 Chrysler Town & Country, 2007 Chevy Silverado LT, 1999 Pontiac Firehawk, 1979 Pontiac Trans Am

I've driven all three series, but only owned the L36. I would tend to agree with your statement that much of the fun is in the getting up to speed (at the low end) since that's where we usually drive when around town, etc. However, for those of us that spend some good time on the highway, the S2 and S3 have so much more power up there when doing 70/80 that's needed for passing and general highway driving.

It's certainly related to the gearing and I feel totally appropriate to the type of cars that usually received the 3.8s. Large sedan family cruiser type vehicles, made for comfort and cruising/traveling with plenty of oomph as needed for highway driving and passing.

But like Don said, they all respond pretty well to some careful tweaking and modding.

As to longevity, my L36 has over 195K miles on it and runs smooth as silk with all the original power and more. Ask Don.

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White Horse. 230K miles, It just keeps on kickin'

I concur. The series 2 is *shoot*. I'm pretty sure there's never been a point where my car has ran perfectly, no matter how much money I put into it.

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2013 A4 P+ ------------------ Glacier White Metallic
6MT, Sport Pkg, JHM Stage 1 Clutch/LWFW, JHM Short Shifter, JHM HFC, USP SS Clutch Line, CR-15 Strut Bar, Alu Kreuz, BFI Shift Knob, EC Trans Mount Insert, VCDS tweaks.