I have a sinister perf. PCM that is mildly set for performance. I would like to know how long it takes for it to adjust itself to the car after I install it and does it effect what settings it learns if you drive more energetically.

Also has anybody put nitrous on an series 1 (no turbo) without reinforcing the top and bottom ends? I 've got the kit and I am real tempted.

_________________
2001 Bonneville SSEi. 1598xx mi.
great car. Wrecked


Burnt Bonny.

Note if you pull the injectors to obserbe fuel delivery...make sure you leave the plugs in and disconnect the ign. Believe me

Nitrous has been run by one member on his old L27 (same year as yours). Allmachtige is the member, and he'll tell you to stay away from it.

One member converted an L27 into an L67 and added a supercharger from an SSEi (similar effect to Nitrous in forced induction/in-cylinder effects). The bottom end let go in short order due to the fact that the pistons and rods of the L27 were not designed to handle higher cylinder pressures from forced induction. The rods twisted, causing bottom end bearing failure. That information is in Techinfo.

_________________

Click here for mod list for both cars
93 SSEi, 95 SLE (supercharged) 97 Buick LeSabre Limited
PontiacDad at WCBF '04: Cruise control? That's like surrendering!
Comprehensive guide to troubleshooting, rebuilding, and modifying Eaton Superchargers

OK I am dropping the NOS until I rebuild. I would like to know who I could go to for performance engine parts (Rod's, bearings, wrist pins, oversize pistons, cams, etc) I have never seen an ad for that kinda thing for my car.
Kris

_________________
2001 Bonneville SSEi. 1598xx mi.
great car. Wrecked


Burnt Bonny.

Note if you pull the injectors to obserbe fuel delivery...make sure you leave the plugs in and disconnect the ign. Believe me

Kris, there's an engine builder that has all that stuff off the shelf. Buick. They build the L67 for Pontiac. Go to the wrecker and get at LEAST an L67 bottom end. Strong wrist pins, pistons, and rods. Cams are available custom-grind or from Crow Cams. But we're getting a bit off-topic here unless you're talking about beefing up the bottom end solely for the purpose of NOS. Otherwise, I doubt there's any reason to rebuild your L27.

_________________

Click here for mod list for both cars
93 SSEi, 95 SLE (supercharged) 97 Buick LeSabre Limited
PontiacDad at WCBF '04: Cruise control? That's like surrendering!
Comprehensive guide to troubleshooting, rebuilding, and modifying Eaton Superchargers

Kris,to get the most out of what you got (L27) PEM ,PLIM,rockers,halfshaft your throttle body. Willwren has all the pics you need.

_________________
1993 SE mag.cat., K&N CAI, B&M drain plug, MSD wires, Energy Suspension end links, Monroe sensotracks,3.06gears,F41,N10,adj.modulator,180 degree stat. SilverStar Ultra highs and lows,TR55 plugs,DEX VI,front trans mount mod.

PEM's?

No.

It's a waste of time and money until you port the heads. Even the weld-restricted ports are still larger than the factory cylinder head exhaust port.

Take the EM's off and have the cracks welded (you have cracks, all do) and don't do any porting. Ported EM's can hurt you just as bad as opening the exhaust up too much anywhere else in the system.

Here's the stock D-shaped port overlayed with the profile of the 'restricted by weld' OEM exhaust manifolds:


No reason to port at all. Not on stock heads.


Considering the level of performance Kris is after, and the things he's tried to get there, I think he'd have alot better success and satisfaction from an L67. And it'll cost him less in the long run.


We're getting off-topic though...... Talking N20 here in the Forced Induction section.

_________________

Click here for mod list for both cars
93 SSEi, 95 SLE (supercharged) 97 Buick LeSabre Limited
PontiacDad at WCBF '04: Cruise control? That's like surrendering!
Comprehensive guide to troubleshooting, rebuilding, and modifying Eaton Superchargers

There's a lot of good info here. It's giving me enough to go on to know it can be done and be worthwhile even considering the limitations of my L27. Would you direct me to a general reading on performance engine rebuilding for our type of cars? I'm sure it's all here already, but it would be a lot work to find and confirm it all. I am aware of most of the part names and functions, but I don't know enough to even get started. I have rebuilt motorcycle motors before and I helped my Dad and brother rebuild the Shelby Cobra GT500 when I was like 10 or something. I have not rebuilt a automobile motor before other than that.

Thanks Pontiac Bonneville Club.

_________________
2001 Bonneville SSEi. 1598xx mi.
great car. Wrecked


Burnt Bonny.

Note if you pull the injectors to obserbe fuel delivery...make sure you leave the plugs in and disconnect the ign. Believe me

I'm telling you NOT to rebuild. The L67 bottom end is already what you want. It's more expensive to convert your L27 than to simply swap in the L67 bottom end, or for that matter, the entire engine with supercharger, axles, trans, and PCM.

_________________

Click here for mod list for both cars
93 SSEi, 95 SLE (supercharged) 97 Buick LeSabre Limited
PontiacDad at WCBF '04: Cruise control? That's like surrendering!
Comprehensive guide to troubleshooting, rebuilding, and modifying Eaton Superchargers

That is something I've wondered about many times. Swap for an L67 motor, turbo and PCM. Yet I would imagine it would be way over my head. Not too much literature on this process I would think.

_________________
2001 Bonneville SSEi. 1598xx mi.
great car. Wrecked


Burnt Bonny.

Note if you pull the injectors to obserbe fuel delivery...make sure you leave the plugs in and disconnect the ign. Believe me

I don't want to call this procedure the wrong name. To put an L67 bottom end in an L27 is an upgrade? Will wrecker parts actually be worth it? If my bottom end is too weak now to handle NOS will an older motor's bottom end be expected to hold up better for me? I can see where the parts are not going to get worse in the yard, but I'd have to find one with the lowest miles. Would anyone be willing to tell me which Olds', Buicks have the L67?

I looked up in my chilton and found that the Vin 1's were the supercharged models. So they are the L67's? So that's 1994 Bonneville SSE, Olds eighty-eight and Buick Lesabre?

_________________
2001 Bonneville SSEi. 1598xx mi.
great car. Wrecked


Burnt Bonny.

Note if you pull the injectors to obserbe fuel delivery...make sure you leave the plugs in and disconnect the ign. Believe me

The point people are trying to make is that, relatively speaking, the rotating assembly of the L67 is inheirantly stronger that the L27 (Extra meat in the rods and pistons, plus a different balance to the crank to accomodate the heavier rods & pistons.) For what you are trying to accomplish, the path of least resistance and cheapest cost is to get an L67 short block or long block.

Probably, a simple commercially available rebuild will do the trick. The price break between buying a L67 shortblock from a professional rebuilder vs. doing the rebuild yourself is practically nil. A junk yard L67 is another option, but it needs to have a clean bill of health and some form of warantee from the yard if they hand you a bad one.

_________________
Bye Bye 1990 Bonneville LE... Now it belongs to my daughter
In the Garage: 2009 Subaru Outback, 1987 Camaro, 2006 SV650S, 1995 Regal 182 "ASANAGI", 1962 Ford Galaxie 500, 1995 Ford F150 XL 4WD, 1953 Farmall Cub

You can get a good used L67 from moradpartscompany.com good prices, a good guy to deal with. good luck on thrusday and and change your plugs befor you go to the track,so you get a good base line.

_________________
1993 SE mag.cat., K&N CAI, B&M drain plug, MSD wires, Energy Suspension end links, Monroe sensotracks,3.06gears,F41,N10,adj.modulator,180 degree stat. SilverStar Ultra highs and lows,TR55 plugs,DEX VI,front trans mount mod.

Any warrantee will be void after the use of N2O. Any long-block wrecker warrantee will be void after the oil pan or cylinder heads are removed.

This is true for commercial rebuilds as well.

Kris, this is what I've been suggesting all along, and couldn't get you off the rebuild kick. I even told you this over 6 months ago. The L67 bottom end was built for what you want to do. The L27 was not. And when you're all done, your trans will be the weak point.

_________________

Click here for mod list for both cars
93 SSEi, 95 SLE (supercharged) 97 Buick LeSabre Limited
PontiacDad at WCBF '04: Cruise control? That's like surrendering!
Comprehensive guide to troubleshooting, rebuilding, and modifying Eaton Superchargers

I have been told I have a problem with concentration. I think I just wasn't ready for the more difficult and costlier aspects of performance improvements until early this year when my wife's mother died (at very old age) and the budget improved and with it her attitude toward the Bonneville.


I still am making assumptions I'd like to clear up. Can I swap the the mentioned
bottom end parts without pulling the motor? I've been assuming I could pull the heads off and drop the pan. Disconnect the rods from underneath and push the piston's out the top of the cylinder. Crazy? I've been inside a motor before, but that was a complete tear down. Could it work that way?

_________________
2001 Bonneville SSEi. 1598xx mi.
great car. Wrecked


Burnt Bonny.

Note if you pull the injectors to obserbe fuel delivery...make sure you leave the plugs in and disconnect the ign. Believe me

Good point and true. Any high performance use of a motor voids the builder's warranty.

My advice and experience:

In the normal course of events, a rebuild will fail fairly quick if it is assembled incorrectly, as will a bad yard long block. So, if he follows a clear path, he should know whether his new/old L67 replacement is running correctly as a street motor *before* doing anything that would void out the warranty.

In other words... Be smart and sane about what you are trying to do. Cut out as many unknowns from the equation as possible by doing the changes in a systematic way.

Pulling the entire engine/transmission pancake out of a L67 equipped car to use in yours is another proven approach. Get the entire driveline working in stock form, run it a while, hook up the scan tools and see how the engine behaves normally. Then start making the changes a little at a time, with the power adders being the last thing on the "to-do" list.

It's a rare occasion when a hopped up motor, built at home, works right on the first try. Usually there are multiple little glitches that can have you chasing your tail around...or a major mistake that makes you pull the whole thing out and try again. ( I've got a bunch of dents in the plaster on the garage walls...many of them are shaped like the ends of hand tools "Sonofabitch...crash...thud" )


Last... since you just posted this while I was typing.... While it is possible to work on the motor's bottom end in the car. It is NOT recommended. It's difficult, dirty, and can lead to demolishing the motor if not done right. Any work on the bottom end of the motor should be done with the motor out of the car, upside-down on an engine stand, and in as clean an enviroment as possible.

_________________
Bye Bye 1990 Bonneville LE... Now it belongs to my daughter
In the Garage: 2009 Subaru Outback, 1987 Camaro, 2006 SV650S, 1995 Regal 182 "ASANAGI", 1962 Ford Galaxie 500, 1995 Ford F150 XL 4WD, 1953 Farmall Cub

Hey I forgot to say thanks to mhfromphila! I'll post my times Friday.

AS far as working on the bottom end with motor still in place that is really what I'd like to do

_________________
2001 Bonneville SSEi. 1598xx mi.
great car. Wrecked


Burnt Bonny.

Note if you pull the injectors to obserbe fuel delivery...make sure you leave the plugs in and disconnect the ign. Believe me

Why?

Are you afraid of pulling the motor? If so, it's a fear you need to get over, because if you are going to play the hot-rod game, you are going to have to get used to the idea of pulling the drive line out..often more than once. Really, pulling the motor is no big deal. You need only a few special tools, but they are the kind of gear you buy once and use for the rest of your life. (Like an engine hoist/"cherry picker"...the must-have tool for any serious car work. Worth every penny spent on it.)

Taking the motor out and working on it the way GM intended is the way to go. Yeah, I might change an oil pump or a crank seal on the motor in the car, but I would not even think of trying to work on the rotating assembly upside-down, oil dripping in my face, and gravity fighting me every step of the way.

_________________
Bye Bye 1990 Bonneville LE... Now it belongs to my daughter
In the Garage: 2009 Subaru Outback, 1987 Camaro, 2006 SV650S, 1995 Regal 182 "ASANAGI", 1962 Ford Galaxie 500, 1995 Ford F150 XL 4WD, 1953 Farmall Cub

Kris, I swapped motors on the Zilla in 23 hours. Granted, we had a good team here, but that gives you an idea that it's not very difficult.

Yes, you CAN change the crank from below, and I suppose you can do the rods and pistons that way too, but you're going to have to change the balance shaft as well, which means the top and front of the motor, and by the time you do all that, you might as well have it out of the car.

Why on earth would you even consider all that when you can simply swap in the correct bottom end? I got a certified motor with great oil pressure, (just looked at my receipt) and 175 PSI +/-5psi on all 6 cylinders for $650. With a 90-day warranty. From a local wrecker (B&R in Albany). Prepped on an engine stand, and swapped in 23 hours. Taking our time. On a WHIM. We actually hadn't even planned the swap for that mini-meet.

_________________

Click here for mod list for both cars
93 SSEi, 95 SLE (supercharged) 97 Buick LeSabre Limited
PontiacDad at WCBF '04: Cruise control? That's like surrendering!
Comprehensive guide to troubleshooting, rebuilding, and modifying Eaton Superchargers

I called around and the only one I can find, if I told him right what I needed, is at B&R here in Portland. $600. install warranty only (had 90 days but because of the swap...), checks out 180 psi compression. It's from a Buick Lesabre 1993 Vin 1. Would that do?

_________________
2001 Bonneville SSEi. 1598xx mi.
great car. Wrecked


Burnt Bonny.

Note if you pull the injectors to obserbe fuel delivery...make sure you leave the plugs in and disconnect the ign. Believe me

Can't be from a Buick LeSabre. They never had a Vin1 option. In other words, the LeSabre was NEVER supercharged.

You need clarification on that.

Or if it is from a LeSabre, it's the exact same motor you have. No difference.

_________________

Click here for mod list for both cars
93 SSEi, 95 SLE (supercharged) 97 Buick LeSabre Limited
PontiacDad at WCBF '04: Cruise control? That's like surrendering!
Comprehensive guide to troubleshooting, rebuilding, and modifying Eaton Superchargers