Hey guys, new here but determined to make this work. I have a 93 LeSabre with the 1973 old lady instrument panel and would like to upgrade it to the analog gauge cluster. Already have the cluster, it came with the L67 I installed last year, so I know the engine has all the right sensors and ECM. I have both FSM's and would like to know if it is possible (feasible) to do a conversion. My guess would be that the whole dash comes off and in order to make it work properly a wiring harness from a cluster-equipped car would have to be installed along with the row of idiot lights along the top of the dash. Am I wrong here? Can it be done by just repinning? Or is a complete overhaul about it?

_________________
- 1993 "Medium Garnet Red Metallic" Buick LeSabre; '94 L67, 115k, Custom Intake, 3.07 FD, X Cat. Conv., GTP Exhaust, 5-note Horn; "The Supercharged Couch". Maybe it only runs on human blood... (which is almost as expensive as 93 octane these days).
- 1978 "Carmine Red" Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz "Lawn Ornament"; 38k, "A billowous black fog trails behind it, and its tailpipe farts a sooty skid mark on the pavement wherever its idling..."
- 1969 "Persian Aqua Metallic" Cadillac "Delores" Eldorado; 97k. "Ahh, the Eldosaurus!"
- 1989 "Two-Tone: Dirt and Curdled Milk" F*&d F-150 (I6, 5 spd., pwr. nothing); 165k, 2 qts. oil/300 miles, toggle switch fuel pump, tractor exhaust... $150 CDN
- Because GM loves money and we are all pawns... "If you build it, they will come!

There's a PCM style difference between 93 and 94, so I don't know if the gauge clusters will cross or not and be fully functional, but other than that, I don't see why it wouldn't. They might even hook straight up, for all I know. Just some food for thought.

_________________

WHITE WHINE - 1992 SSE Supercharged 236.26 ci (.040 Over) 15.090 at 90.2 MPH on old engine w/ slipping trans & melted O2 sensor - Gen 3 M62 and matching TB, Gen 2 Pully, Zillamotorsports Ported LIM, YT 1.72 Roller Rockers, SII FPR & Injectors, Hypertech Thermomaster chip w/ 160 Thermo, TransGo Shift Kit, Infinity/Pioneer Speakers & a 10" Alpine Type R Sub, all the watts, 140 amp Alternator, Ricepipe CAI w/ heatshield, Pilot Angel Eye Foglights, Clear Corners, '02 17" Chrome Bent 5's, Magnaflow F-Body Muffler and Hi-flo Cat, Ceramic Coated Ported Exhaust Manifolds, Fan Override, Monroe Reflex struts, red calipers
2009 G8 GT - Sport Red Metallic, loaded, SOLO Axlebacks, Rotofab Intake, Tuned, autodim mirror, removed intake manifold cover, HSV GTS triple gauge pod, two tone red-hot shifter and HSV SuperSport steering wheel, GXP rear sway bar and diffuser, 3.45 diff and various Camaro suspension bits, LED Taillights

I too am interested in this swap, and will be watching closely. I haven't worked up the courage yet to tear my dash apart. You are right, you will need to get the idiot light bar, and my gut tells me that it was the same cluster between 93 and 94, but I don't have proof. Please take pictures, and please don't hold back from going into the unknown.

_________________
~Randall~


1993 Buick Park Avenue - 197k - Some odds and ends done - Simply won't die
1994 Buick Regal - 78k - Bone stock - Always ready for a good kicking
1990 Oldsmobile 88 - Gone to a better place

OK here's what I've gotten so far: Went to the JY and got lucky, found a PAU with all the right stuff and no windshield, so it was easier than normal to disassemble the dash. However, that's the only easy thing. What a rats nest of wires back there! And of course they're all wound up together. The short answer is No, this isn't plug and play and is definitely NOT a swap for the faint of heart or patience. I've put together a comparison of the pinouts and circuits for each individual light/gauge/etc. both on the indicators cluster (U23) and the gauges/info center cluster (UB3). Most all use the same circuits with one exception (oil pressure) and a few additions. However, it requires moving several of the indicator pins up to the info center. Here's a quick run-down of what needs to go from behind the dash up to the info center:

**KEEP IN MIND THIS IS FOR A 1993 BUICK H/C BODY CONVERSION. BASED ON YOUR YEAR/MAKE/MODEL, THE WIRES/COLORS/PIN LOCATIONS MAY BE DIFFERENT. CHECK YOUR FSM'S!**

INFO READS AS FOLLOWS:
CKT.##/PIN LOCATION/WIRE COLOR/DESCRIPTION --> NEW LOCATION/PIN LOCATION

CKT. 33/A2/TAN-WHT./BRAKE IND. --> INFO CTR./B7
CKT. 419/A3/BRN.-WHT./MIL --> INFO CTR./B8
CKT. 264/A4/DK. GRN./SECURITY IND. --> INFO CTR./B4
CKT. 40/A5/ORN./B+ TO SEC. IND. --> INFO CTR./B3
CKT. 852/A6/WHT./ABS IND. --> INFO CTR./B9
CKT. 85/A7/WHT./CRUISE IND. --> INFO CTR./A4
CKT. 358/A11/BRN./INFL. REST. IND. --> INFO CTR./B10
CKT. 237/B11/YELLOW/CHIME & BELTS IND. --> INFO CTR./A8

THE CIRCUITS IN THE ABOVE LISTING REMAIN THE SAME

This is not a comprehensive listing of what exactly needs to be moved/repinned. For that info, PM me and I can email the sheet I've come up with.

If anyone has done this or come up with an easier way, PLEASE let me know!!!

_________________
- 1993 "Medium Garnet Red Metallic" Buick LeSabre; '94 L67, 115k, Custom Intake, 3.07 FD, X Cat. Conv., GTP Exhaust, 5-note Horn; "The Supercharged Couch". Maybe it only runs on human blood... (which is almost as expensive as 93 octane these days).
- 1978 "Carmine Red" Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz "Lawn Ornament"; 38k, "A billowous black fog trails behind it, and its tailpipe farts a sooty skid mark on the pavement wherever its idling..."
- 1969 "Persian Aqua Metallic" Cadillac "Delores" Eldorado; 97k. "Ahh, the Eldosaurus!"
- 1989 "Two-Tone: Dirt and Curdled Milk" F*&d F-150 (I6, 5 spd., pwr. nothing); 165k, 2 qts. oil/300 miles, toggle switch fuel pump, tractor exhaust... $150 CDN
- Because GM loves money and we are all pawns... "If you build it, they will come!

In all honesty, I have looked into the swap on my own, and was met with the answer that rewiring will be necessary. I didn't know how much, but it sounds like you are on the right track. PM on the way.

_________________
~Randall~


1993 Buick Park Avenue - 197k - Some odds and ends done - Simply won't die
1994 Buick Regal - 78k - Bone stock - Always ready for a good kicking
1990 Oldsmobile 88 - Gone to a better place

when you get there you might find some of the wires are there and others aren't... so it could get a little more friendly...lol

he has already figured that out. I looked at his plans and I think he has it. The real test though is when he tries to start it up the first time, and when his fuel gauge leaves him an empty feeling, and the tach says all hope is lost, then we know we overlooked something.

_________________
~Randall~


1993 Buick Park Avenue - 197k - Some odds and ends done - Simply won't die
1994 Buick Regal - 78k - Bone stock - Always ready for a good kicking
1990 Oldsmobile 88 - Gone to a better place

OK I took the dive today and got going on this project. I was VERY surprised at the way things have turned out. I'm about 60% finished after a solid 7 hours. I've re-pinned the cluster completely and started on the Info Ctr. plug, but ran out of light. I checked the cluster, and did a quick run down the street, and it all actually seems to work (OP@40psi, Volts@~13, Fuel@1/3, Tach. and Speedo. smooth)!!! The temp gauge doesn't move, but I think I know where that is screwed up (the pics with the green wire at the firewall connector) and the LED for it does work (separate circuits). Here are the pics from start to where I am now:

Original Dash





Faux Wood Trim and Vents Removed
Trim pulls off; Turn vents to far right and pry **carefully**





Glovebox Out



Radio Out



Remove Screws Retaining Dim Control and Cluster



Remove Cluster



Cluster Connector Close-Up and Disassembly **Row "B" is with little round pegs on either end!!!**







Firewall Connector -- Green Wire is for Temp. Gauge; Also need one for Tach. Signal from ICM (White Wire)







Re-pinned Connector



New Cluster Plugged in and operating



Routing of Info. Ctr. Wiring (Either covered from factory or speaker must come out; I installed door panels with CS II panels in them and door speakers so mine were non-functioning. The new harness will go under the black plastic and run along in under the black "BUICK" trim piece.)





Tomorrow I plan to finish the Info Ctr. wiring and possibly pick up that bar. Might not have time, glass ppl coming to replace windshield. But it looks like an accurate time estimate is definitely two un-distracted days to do this. More if you intend to wire the oil life, door ajar, etc. modules as well. Best bet is to stop by cocktail hour; those little pins are so tiny... but the satisfaction is definitely worth it!

_________________
- 1993 "Medium Garnet Red Metallic" Buick LeSabre; '94 L67, 115k, Custom Intake, 3.07 FD, X Cat. Conv., GTP Exhaust, 5-note Horn; "The Supercharged Couch". Maybe it only runs on human blood... (which is almost as expensive as 93 octane these days).
- 1978 "Carmine Red" Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz "Lawn Ornament"; 38k, "A billowous black fog trails behind it, and its tailpipe farts a sooty skid mark on the pavement wherever its idling..."
- 1969 "Persian Aqua Metallic" Cadillac "Delores" Eldorado; 97k. "Ahh, the Eldosaurus!"
- 1989 "Two-Tone: Dirt and Curdled Milk" F*&d F-150 (I6, 5 spd., pwr. nothing); 165k, 2 qts. oil/300 miles, toggle switch fuel pump, tractor exhaust... $150 CDN
- Because GM loves money and we are all pawns... "If you build it, they will come!

Very nice! Was there empty spots on the block that plugs into the firewall, or is there something else going on?

_________________
~Randall~


1993 Buick Park Avenue - 197k - Some odds and ends done - Simply won't die
1994 Buick Regal - 78k - Bone stock - Always ready for a good kicking
1990 Oldsmobile 88 - Gone to a better place

Yes, the firewall plug is generic to Buick H/C bodies, and perhaps Pontiac/Olds as well. It is pinned for what options your car has; in my case the *Original* car was a bare-bones base model Custom, so nothing fancy. I have 5 or 6 empty slots in that plug. They would, I assume, be for the low coolant, low oil, tach, temp gauge... maybe security, and something else... not sure what. At any rate, thankfully there isn't a difference between the vitals on an L27 and an L67! So I ran the temp wire thru (since i can't find a female connector that size in any of my spare harnesses) and the tach wire thru there; both of which were readily tapped on the existing engine harness I like the stock look as much as possible; stray wires would drive me insane!

_________________
- 1993 "Medium Garnet Red Metallic" Buick LeSabre; '94 L67, 115k, Custom Intake, 3.07 FD, X Cat. Conv., GTP Exhaust, 5-note Horn; "The Supercharged Couch". Maybe it only runs on human blood... (which is almost as expensive as 93 octane these days).
- 1978 "Carmine Red" Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz "Lawn Ornament"; 38k, "A billowous black fog trails behind it, and its tailpipe farts a sooty skid mark on the pavement wherever its idling..."
- 1969 "Persian Aqua Metallic" Cadillac "Delores" Eldorado; 97k. "Ahh, the Eldosaurus!"
- 1989 "Two-Tone: Dirt and Curdled Milk" F*&d F-150 (I6, 5 spd., pwr. nothing); 165k, 2 qts. oil/300 miles, toggle switch fuel pump, tractor exhaust... $150 CDN
- Because GM loves money and we are all pawns... "If you build it, they will come!

OK, its finally done! And it works as it should!! Turns out the only glitch was with the temp gauge, and that was a corroded connector at the sensor; now its fine Everything assembled nicely and I think it was def. worth it if anyone else with a Buick looks into it; what an improvement!

Here are a few more pics of the job as I finished up...

New Info Ctr. harness from old cluster wires



Info Ctr. harness ready to install



Dash Installed and cleaned up!

_________________
- 1993 "Medium Garnet Red Metallic" Buick LeSabre; '94 L67, 115k, Custom Intake, 3.07 FD, X Cat. Conv., GTP Exhaust, 5-note Horn; "The Supercharged Couch". Maybe it only runs on human blood... (which is almost as expensive as 93 octane these days).
- 1978 "Carmine Red" Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz "Lawn Ornament"; 38k, "A billowous black fog trails behind it, and its tailpipe farts a sooty skid mark on the pavement wherever its idling..."
- 1969 "Persian Aqua Metallic" Cadillac "Delores" Eldorado; 97k. "Ahh, the Eldosaurus!"
- 1989 "Two-Tone: Dirt and Curdled Milk" F*&d F-150 (I6, 5 spd., pwr. nothing); 165k, 2 qts. oil/300 miles, toggle switch fuel pump, tractor exhaust... $150 CDN
- Because GM loves money and we are all pawns... "If you build it, they will come!

Any pics of the info center in action?

_________________
~Randall~


1993 Buick Park Avenue - 197k - Some odds and ends done - Simply won't die
1994 Buick Regal - 78k - Bone stock - Always ready for a good kicking
1990 Oldsmobile 88 - Gone to a better place

It doesn't come out in the dark, and during the daytime its too bright lol. The only one that looks like anything is the dash. When you pin it out the way I did, I get (!) BRAKE, CRUISE, SECURITY, AIR BAG, SERVICE ENGINE SOON, and FASTEN BELTS. They are all towards the center of the dash, to the immediate left and right of the BUICK emblem. It looks good

_________________
- 1993 "Medium Garnet Red Metallic" Buick LeSabre; '94 L67, 115k, Custom Intake, 3.07 FD, X Cat. Conv., GTP Exhaust, 5-note Horn; "The Supercharged Couch". Maybe it only runs on human blood... (which is almost as expensive as 93 octane these days).
- 1978 "Carmine Red" Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz "Lawn Ornament"; 38k, "A billowous black fog trails behind it, and its tailpipe farts a sooty skid mark on the pavement wherever its idling..."
- 1969 "Persian Aqua Metallic" Cadillac "Delores" Eldorado; 97k. "Ahh, the Eldosaurus!"
- 1989 "Two-Tone: Dirt and Curdled Milk" F*&d F-150 (I6, 5 spd., pwr. nothing); 165k, 2 qts. oil/300 miles, toggle switch fuel pump, tractor exhaust... $150 CDN
- Because GM loves money and we are all pawns... "If you build it, they will come!

Actually, that is what I was hoping to see was the dash, to see the idiot lights behind the strip.

_________________
~Randall~


1993 Buick Park Avenue - 197k - Some odds and ends done - Simply won't die
1994 Buick Regal - 78k - Bone stock - Always ready for a good kicking
1990 Oldsmobile 88 - Gone to a better place

Good work, and kudos to you for making it work..

I love Gauges and refused to buy a car without them... I need my oil pressure, Battery Voltage, and Tach..

And is there any hope of doing anything about the odometer? Or are you just going to eat the 13k miles?

_________________
~Randall~


1993 Buick Park Avenue - 197k - Some odds and ends done - Simply won't die
1994 Buick Regal - 78k - Bone stock - Always ready for a good kicking
1990 Oldsmobile 88 - Gone to a better place

Oh there might be something, but I can keep track of it for now; not a huge deal. Supposedly there is some sort of display alteration when the odometer gets turned back. I'll play with my old one and see if its worth it. All in all, I'm happy to have it and it works!

And Jrs3800:



Thanks! That was the last big drawback to the car, and I've never had one without them; I like to know if a problem is starting, not when its already happened!

_________________
- 1993 "Medium Garnet Red Metallic" Buick LeSabre; '94 L67, 115k, Custom Intake, 3.07 FD, X Cat. Conv., GTP Exhaust, 5-note Horn; "The Supercharged Couch". Maybe it only runs on human blood... (which is almost as expensive as 93 octane these days).
- 1978 "Carmine Red" Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz "Lawn Ornament"; 38k, "A billowous black fog trails behind it, and its tailpipe farts a sooty skid mark on the pavement wherever its idling..."
- 1969 "Persian Aqua Metallic" Cadillac "Delores" Eldorado; 97k. "Ahh, the Eldosaurus!"
- 1989 "Two-Tone: Dirt and Curdled Milk" F*&d F-150 (I6, 5 spd., pwr. nothing); 165k, 2 qts. oil/300 miles, toggle switch fuel pump, tractor exhaust... $150 CDN
- Because GM loves money and we are all pawns... "If you build it, they will come!

I am curious if the odometer can just be moved from one cluster to the other? or is it built into the circuitry of the board from what you can see?

_________________
~Randall~


1993 Buick Park Avenue - 197k - Some odds and ends done - Simply won't die
1994 Buick Regal - 78k - Bone stock - Always ready for a good kicking
1990 Oldsmobile 88 - Gone to a better place

Or can you just advance the OD till it starts over and then go from there to reset it?

_________________
98 Bonneville SSE


03 GrandPrix GT
CAI, U-bend delete, Ported L67 TB, L26 PLIM and UIM.

that might actually work, lol. never considered it! I have the mileage where this cluster started written down so I can make an adjustment if I ever do something with the odo.

_________________
- 1993 "Medium Garnet Red Metallic" Buick LeSabre; '94 L67, 115k, Custom Intake, 3.07 FD, X Cat. Conv., GTP Exhaust, 5-note Horn; "The Supercharged Couch". Maybe it only runs on human blood... (which is almost as expensive as 93 octane these days).
- 1978 "Carmine Red" Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz "Lawn Ornament"; 38k, "A billowous black fog trails behind it, and its tailpipe farts a sooty skid mark on the pavement wherever its idling..."
- 1969 "Persian Aqua Metallic" Cadillac "Delores" Eldorado; 97k. "Ahh, the Eldosaurus!"
- 1989 "Two-Tone: Dirt and Curdled Milk" F*&d F-150 (I6, 5 spd., pwr. nothing); 165k, 2 qts. oil/300 miles, toggle switch fuel pump, tractor exhaust... $150 CDN
- Because GM loves money and we are all pawns... "If you build it, they will come!