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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:33 pm 
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I hate this friggin car.. :evil: Have been driving the car on and off and a few days ago I moved the car around in front of the house and went out 2 days later and it won't start. I think the starter may have clicked, but didn't crank. Today I put the battery charger on it and just went out to start it and nothing, no click, nothing. Lights all work, lights stay on when trying to crank. Just put a starter in this thing within the last 2 months. Is there a starter relay somewhere in this car?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:05 pm 
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If the starter is clicking, it's getting power. Nothing to do with a relay...

1) Weak battery that doesn't have enough amperage based on your other thread
2) Dare I say, a bad replacement starter

I'm more inclined to say it's #1 though. Just because it has 12 volts to power lights and accessories doesn't mean it has sufficient cranking amperage to turn over an engine.

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Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

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2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Mommy's NEW RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Daddy's beater affectionately called the Rolling Garbage Can or "RGC" for short
2009 Chevrolet Impala SS: LS4 V8, Victory Red
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:29 pm 
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Charged all day, had 12.58 volts when I took charger off of it and still, no click. Should I try hooking up jumper cables to battery and trying that to get it to start? I guess if battery still has 12.58 volts in morning, I'll pull the battery and take it to be tested. Used to be in the old days if you had your headlights on and tried to start the car and battery was shot, the lights would go out. I am hearing relay #49 I believe under the rear seat clicking and it seemed like it got a little warm when I had my wife try to crank it while I felt for the clicking relay.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:44 pm 
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Again, that battery could be putting out 14 volts. Volts don't matter for cranking an engine. Amperage does. IF there are weak cells, amperage may be down. You need to get it load tested.

This uses a group 78 battery and should have around 800 cold cranking amps (I think the AC Delco version is around 770 cca).

Voltage is the measure of work being done. Amperage is the muscle/strenght/force of the work being done.

Think of it as voltage being the equivalent of horsepower and amperage being the equivalent of torque.

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Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Mommy's NEW RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Daddy's beater affectionately called the Rolling Garbage Can or "RGC" for short
2009 Chevrolet Impala SS: LS4 V8, Victory Red
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:55 am 
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Location: Fred. Co. Md.
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Took battery down to get tested and it has 648 CCA, battery specs. are 770. I understand the amps thing but even if it has 648, shouldn't the starter even make a click like it's even trying to work? I am going to try and use jumper cables to see if it will start with them attached and I'd assume that if that doesn't work, the starter has gone bad??


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:02 am 
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I agree with everything said with regard to amperage vs. voltage, however, regarding his "current" (sorry, had to say it) circumstances, the fact that the lights aren't dimming when he tries to crank should move the diag back towards the starter/starter circuit, not the battery, shouldn't it?

I know the ECM requires a certain voltage before it will even allow the starter to attempt to crank, but it cannot monitor amperage, just voltage. If he's seeing 12.48V, the ECM should think everything's A-OK and try to crank. If the battery was the issue, the lights should immediately dim due to the draw of the starter. If he's hearing the click (at least I think he said he heard the solenoid click under the seat...), the system is TRYING to crank. If the lights are staying bright, the starter isn't creating the draw.

IMO, you have another bad starter.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:50 am 
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#2 on my post above.

As to the 648, that was that the highest? Like when they first put the load on it? That's a near 16% reduction over, well "under" spec. If they put the load on for at least 15 - 20 seconds, if 648 was the high, that means it went lower as the test progressed.

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2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Mommy's NEW RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Daddy's beater affectionately called the Rolling Garbage Can or "RGC" for short
2009 Chevrolet Impala SS: LS4 V8, Victory Red
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:23 am 
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The tester was attached for about 4 minutes I guess. I brought it home and put it back in the car and attached a car with a battery that's only 3 months old and has 640 CCA and the starter still did nothing, not even a click. Since the battery is 'marginal' I guess I will get a new one and then go from there.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:37 am 
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Wholly *shoot*! 4 minutes!

The test should only be 15 - 20 seconds. Much akin to you cranking your engine.

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Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Mommy's NEW RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Daddy's beater affectionately called the Rolling Garbage Can or "RGC" for short
2009 Chevrolet Impala SS: LS4 V8, Victory Red
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:41 pm 
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I think it checks the cell life and a few other things. Got a new battery (800 CCA) but it was pouring the rain when I got home so it'll be tomorrow before I get it in.

What's the chances that when I tried to start it the other day and it just clicked once, that the solenoid gear is stuck in the flywheel teeth?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:26 pm 
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Yea, they had to be doing a few other tests if it lasted that long. A load test should only be around 15 seconds. If they load tested it for 4 minutes, that battery would be fried. :)

You could try hitting the ignition a few times to see if it is stuck, that you can jar it loose.

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Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Mommy's NEW RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Daddy's beater affectionately called the Rolling Garbage Can or "RGC" for short
2009 Chevrolet Impala SS: LS4 V8, Victory Red
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:24 am 
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Well.............new battery in and same results, no start, no click................guess it's plenum removal time.....again. :banghead:


Old starter out, found source of possible vacuum leak from last time. The tube that comes out from under the plenum has a spring type hose clamp on it that retains the rubber hose to the tube that has, for lack of better description, a small tit on one side and a tang with a small hole on the other and when you compress the clamp, the small tit catches in the hole in the tang and holds the clamp in an 'open' mode. Apparently whomever had this apart before I got it failed to release the small tit out of the hole in the tang. Had 12 volts to the starter, so I'm waiting on the replacement one to come in this afternoon. One thing I did notice on the one I took out was the solenoid gear was almost impossible to turn on the shaft (I know it's a one way thing) and it didn't even budge the opposite way, so maybe the whole solenoid gear drive was screwed Here's hoping......


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:08 pm 
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Location: Fred. Co. Md.
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Well...................anybody in the Frederick, Md. area interested in an 05 GXP??

I am about to give up on this thing. New starter is in and still nothing, not a click, a crank or any sound at the starter. I checked voltage at the starter before install and it had 12+ volts, so there has to be something else that is preventing this thing from engaging the starter. A fuse, a relay.....something.......ignition switch......ugh.......

Does this car have a fusible link wire somewhere in it to the starter wiring?

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:17 am 
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Contact Andrew at Bonnevilles Unlimited an get a replacement ignition switch. I assume the switch on the GXP is the same as an SSEi; since you've replaced the battery and starter (several times), I'd look there. I don't know why they fail, but there are several contacts in there that make or break depending on switch position. It's possible that the contact surfaces get dirty over time and make a poor connection, or one is not lifting completely, I don't know. My car was doing some weird stuff and finally wouldn't even click the starter solenoid. Turned out to be the switch. They're reasonably priced from Andrew and a lot easier to replace than a starter. :)

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:40 am 
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OK


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:13 am 
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I would think that if you're getting other power through the ignition switch though...

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Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Mommy's NEW RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Daddy's beater affectionately called the Rolling Garbage Can or "RGC" for short
2009 Chevrolet Impala SS: LS4 V8, Victory Red
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:13 am 
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Possibly a bad ground wire somewhere?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:32 am 
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CMNTMXR57 wrote:
I would think that if you're getting other power through the ignition switch though...
Yep, you'd think. But there is a specific contact that sets when you turn to "start" (then breaks when the key is released). If that contact is bad or dirty you could still get power to everything else and not be able to engage the starter. I'd have to look again, but as I recall when this contact sets it provides a voltage to the computer telling it to start the engine; i.e. starter current does not flow through the ignition switch. I actually mapped out what contacts provide a signal to what function/component some time ago and was going to post it, but I got lazy and dropped the ball.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:45 am 
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Unacceptable. You're showing tendencies of not being a team player anymore. :P

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Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Mommy's NEW RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Daddy's beater affectionately called the Rolling Garbage Can or "RGC" for short
2009 Chevrolet Impala SS: LS4 V8, Victory Red
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:27 am 
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:whipped: Ouch.

I stand reprimanded, but I blame Ed and his chicken ropin' posts from around that time. :twisted:

I'll see if I can resurrect the information I collected on the ignition switch...I had pikshurs and e'ythang. :pimp: Dick & I were in the process of determining some way to test the switch without removing it but we got distracted.

I can't say with certainty that the ignition switch is 300's problem, but faced with replacing another starter vs trying a new switch - that would be my next shot in the dark. While it's not highly common, those switches have been known to go bad or be intermittent. I'm not a proponent of throwing parts at a car until it magically starts working, and it's possible the new starter is faulty, but in this case I might be inclined to play the odds that the switch could be a player.

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