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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:08 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:15 pm
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Year and Trim: 2002 Bonneville SSEi
After dealing with my random starting issue for the last few months, the problem is solved. The thing that always puzzled me was that it was a issue of WHEN the vehicle would start, not IF it would start. Not having a place to work out of the winter weather, I just dealt with the issue. Warmer weather the last few weekends finally gave me the opportunity to check a few things out.
After searching the forum for similar issues, I created an attack plan and crossed things off the list.
Battery terminals? No... cleaned and no change.
Battery? No... Even though new, had load tested at auto store and checked out fine. Pretty sure it wasn't the issue since things like headlights and power windows functioned normally.
Body ground issues? No... weren't corroded but cleaned up connections anyway.
Alternator? No... To save time removing it, I disconnected it to make sure it wasn't loading down the electrical system. No change (with fully charged battery). Did a diode check to make sure alternator wasn't draining battery while vehicle was off, checked out fine.
Came down to one of two things.... Body Control Module (or Dashboard Interface Module as it's called in some places) or ignition switch.
Decided to go with ignition switch after reading other have had similar "no start/crank" issues and changing the ignition switch solved them. Got an ignition switch and exciter ring (BTW, eBay is a good source for new parts at good prices and free quick shipping) and swapped them out. With instruction found on a thread on this forum, I was able to pull the dash apart and swap out the switch in less than an hour. Not bad for an hour of my time and about $160 in parts.
Not only does the new switch have a much more "positive" feel when turning to the various positions, The SES (service engine soon) light illuminates and fuel pump primes immediately in the RUN position (used to be a random delay and vehicle would not start till light illuminated). From looking at the wiring diagram for ignition switch connections, I'm guessing that the part of the switch that supplies crank voltage, power to the DIM, and power to the anti-theft module went bad causing the random crank and security issues.
Which part is everyone using as a replacement ignition switch??? The switch I pulled out was marked GM #25721650. I replaced it with AC-Delco # D1431D. Is there a difference in quality/durability of these parts?
Do they go bad often that having a spare on hand is a good idea??
PS.... Disconnecting the cable going to the shifter FIRST lets you pull the switch farther into the radio opening and makes it easier releasing the two big connectors on the switch. If I had done that, I could have changed the switch in about half the time. ;)


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:15 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:51 am
Posts: 747
Location: Missouri
Year and Trim: 95 SSEi
05 GXP
I am not having the same random no crank issue, but I am having strange issues that may
be related to that switch. When I unlock the car and open the driver door to get in, the
car chimes like someone has left the key in the ignition. Also when driving down the road
the dome light will suddenly come on and then immediately fade off. I also would experience
the issue where the retained accessory power would stay on even after opening the door, meaning
the radio would still be going while you are walking away from the car.

I always assumed this was the door switch going bad, which is a nightmare to replace, so I
haven't yet. Now I am wondering if the ignition switch might be causing some or all of my
issues.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:18 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:57 pm
Posts: 268
Location: Muskego,Wisconsin
Year and Trim: 2000 SLE 2005 SLE
1975 Monte Carlo
According the GM parts website the Delco D1431D is the same as the 25721650.
Price on Amazon for the D1431D is $43.99.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:44 am 
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Year and Trim: 2002 Bonneville SSEi
dougtoth wrote:
According the GM parts website the Delco D1431D is the same as the 25721650.
Price on Amazon for the D1431D is $43.99.

I know the Delco p/n is a replacement for the GM p/n. Was wondering if there was a difference between the OEM part and the replacement part.
The reason the total cost was about $160 is because I changer the switch and the exciter coil. Couldn't tell if it was a switch it security issue and have read that both are known to give bad. The exciter was about $100 and the switch was about $50. Figured I'd change them both while it was apart, but didn't know the exciter comes out with the clyinder. I'll hold onto the old one in case it's still good. Thinking on doing a post mortem on the switch to see what actually goes bad on them.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:56 am 
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Location: Muskego,Wisconsin
Year and Trim: 2000 SLE 2005 SLE
1975 Monte Carlo
I really doubt there is a difference between the Delco and GM.
Delco is the parts brand owned by GM.
I am sure the part is made in China for both the Delco part number and the GM part number.
A lot of times the Delco part number and the GM part number are one in the same.
The only difference is the price.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:48 am 
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Location: West Point
Year and Trim: 2003 SSEi
Louiej99 wrote:
Thinking on doing a post mortem on the switch to see what actually goes bad on them.
They are interesting. There's a cam in the switch that sets & breaks different contacts. The faulty switch I dismantled did not show any obvious anomalies. Resistance measurements across closed contacts were all about the same (close to 0), contacts broke properly...there was nothing that appeared faulty. They're a puzzlement indeed.

I even mapped out which contact did what (found an error in a schematic, Alldata, I think), produced a logic table, and made a "single line" drawing of the switch circuit. In spite of all this I couldn't identify why any faulty contact would produce the symptoms I observed.

Take yours apart and see if you find anything obvious. I'd be interest to know.

I've replaced 2 of those switches in my car. The first time it messed with the HVAC system. The second time it caused the engine to quit (among other random things).

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:15 pm
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Year and Trim: 2002 Bonneville SSEi
dougtoth wrote:
I really doubt there is a difference between the Delco and GM.
Delco is the parts brand owned by GM.
I am sure the part is made in China for both the Delco part number and the GM part number.
A lot of times the Delco part number and the GM part number are one in the same.
The only difference is the price.

I raise the question because the original switch was two different color plastics and had the GM p/n stamped into the plastic, while the new switch was all black and had neither p/n on it.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:36 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:57 pm
Posts: 268
Location: Muskego,Wisconsin
Year and Trim: 2000 SLE 2005 SLE
1975 Monte Carlo
I would be curious if the new part from GM (25721650) is exactly like the original one that you took out or is like the Delco one that you put in.
The switch you took out is from 2002 which is 17 years ago.
I have had switches or parts I have took out from my 2000 and ordered the same GM part number and they came in a different color or
had a different or newer part number stamped on it.
Again remember GM or Delco does not make a lot of these items.
They outsource them to the cheapest bidder or vendor.
It really is a mute point as long as you fixed the problem. (LOL)


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