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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:40 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:04 pm
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Location: Tarpon Springs, Florida
Year and Trim: 2000 SLE; Arctic White, camel
interior; moonroof
The sunroof on my 2000 suddenly started leaking through the headliner, even though I never open the sunroof/moonroof up. I spent yesterday afternoon checking it out and fixing it, following the directions from the great posts here on how to remove the headliner, http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/interior/topic9351.html, and then how to check and fix all the drains, http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/interior/topic1688.html.

But after pulling the headliner and checking all the drain tubes, the only problem turned out to be that all four drain exit nipples/duckbills were clogged -- I should have checked these nipples first, not last, and so avoided having to pull the headliner. After seeing firsthand how the sunroof drains are set up, it seems to me that the most common place for the drains to become clogged is at the exit nipples, as that is not only the narrowest part of the drainage system, but is also the only part that has road dirt thrown up at it.

The two rear drain nipples are each about a foot behind the back edge of each rear tire, coming out of the side of the trunk. You can see them and reach them underneath without jacking the car up. They are rubber, and come out about an inch. The opening is flat, like a squashed duckbill. I opened each up gently with a small screwdriver and watched the crud and old water come out, then tested them by pouring fresh water into the drain openings on the sunroof.

The front drain nipples are each covered with a plastic fender liner. You do not have to remove the tire to get to it. Remove the liner by first turning the wheel all the way to the right (for the right side; to the left for the left side), then pop out the four plastic pins holding the liner on and wiggle it out; you can see three pins above the tire, and the fourth one is at the bottom inside by the rear edge of the tire. Once the liner is removed, you can see the nipples clearly. Clean the nipples again and test for waterflow.

I thought about cutting off the duckbill part of the drain nipples to have a larger and unblocked exit for the water draining, but did not to so yet, thinking that there must have been a good reason for the factory setup. But if it clogs up again in the near future, I will try cutting them.

I know, I should have checked first things first.

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1957 Volkswagon Beetle
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1966 Corvair Monza
1963 Volvo 122-S
1971 Chevrolet Malibu (350)
1979 Pontiac Formula Firebird (301)
1974 Pontiac Trans-Am (455)
1975 Mercedes 250 SE
1989 Toyota Supra Turbo
1979 Mercury Colony Park Station Wagon
1995 Corvette
1996 Chevrolet Impala SS
1989 GMC Ventura Conversion Van
2000 Pontiac Bonneville SLE (now with a new $2,021 Transmission)
1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:08 pm
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Year and Trim: 2004 Buick Park Avenue Ultra
Thank you for this! I got my Park Ave back in July and the first thing I encountered was this same thing. I tried running weed whip line through the drain holes without luck and with lack of time had a shop take care of it. I think they blew air down the lines which is a no-no if I understand correctly because it can cause the drain tubes to disconnect mid-way (hoping I'm okay currently).

Here in Iowa it has been raining forever, and this morning I checked my headliner and it's nice and dry thankfully but I just wish I would have read a thread like this a few months back. Will definitely keep it in mind moving forward in case I need to go the distance and pull the headliner.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:15 pm 
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Location: Savannah, Georgia
Year and Trim: 2001 SSEi
Those "duckbills" on the ends of the tubes are actually called "Kazoo Drains" (like the musical instrument). Chevy used them in the 60's on the A/C condensation drains. The logic is that they open up once there is some accumulation of water, but otherwise stay closed to prevent critters and other crap from getting in the lines and clogging them up. They're still widely used on condensation drains on refrigerated over-the-road trailers and in all 4 corners of the floors on refrigerated trailers to allow condensation to drain. I worked in Purchasing at Great Dane trailers and purchased them by the thousands. Just a little FYI for you!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:11 am 
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Location: Alberta, Canada
Year and Trim: 2004 GXP, 2008 STS, 2008 DTS
Anyone who is not familiar with the Bonneville and its sunroof drain vulnerability doesn't understand why you should not use compressed air to clear them. The shop probably thinks is worked great, now that water is pooling in your floor area (unbeknownst to them). These drains separate and come apart with absolutely no help at all, so the compressed air likely sealed their fate. You may want to get on this before you develop other problems.

Just so you know, the problem is not in/around the headliner and you'll not likely find water there once the drains have separated. They tend to come apart in a much more inconvenient place... down at the base of the "A" pillar beside the foot wells. You need to check under the carpet for water. There are other causes for water under the carpet as well so you may want to check those as well. Look here under Interior -> Water Leaks...

2000-2005-other-than-gxp/topic25362.html

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 Post subject: Kazoo Drains
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:38 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:04 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Tarpon Springs, Florida
Year and Trim: 2000 SLE; Arctic White, camel
interior; moonroof
"Kazoo drains," eh? That is always interesting, to learn the right name for a thing. They must work well if they are used in refrigerated trucks.

I thought there must be a good design reason for the Bonnevilles to use these nipples/duckbills/kazoo drains at the end of the sunroof drain system, instead of just the drain pipe/tube itself. I'm glad I did not cut the kazoo drains off. Mine were all clogged, which was causing the sunroof to leak through the headliner and down into the battery area under the rear seat. And I should have expected them to be the first things to clog up, what with such a narrow opening on 18-year-old rubber fittings, as dirt and silt eventually comes down the drain tubes as well as road debris hitting the outside of the rear kazoo drains (the front are protected more by the plastic fender liner covering them). Like I said, I wish I had known to check and clean the kazoo drains first, which would have taken maybe 20 minutes, and so avoided taking down the headliner, which took a few hours since I had never done it before. Cleaning out the kazoo drains did the trick for me; no more water leaks inside my Bonneville.

Thanks for sharing this knowledge.

_________________
Cars so far:

1957 Volkswagon Beetle
1957 Triumph TR-3
1964 Rambler
1966 Corvair Monza
1963 Volvo 122-S
1971 Chevrolet Malibu (350)
1979 Pontiac Formula Firebird (301)
1974 Pontiac Trans-Am (455)
1975 Mercedes 250 SE
1989 Toyota Supra Turbo
1979 Mercury Colony Park Station Wagon
1995 Corvette
1996 Chevrolet Impala SS
1989 GMC Ventura Conversion Van
2000 Pontiac Bonneville SLE (now with a new $2,021 Transmission)
1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo
2003 Lincoln Town Car, Cartier


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:35 pm 
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Year and Trim: 01 SSEI (black)
00 SSEI (green)
ddalder wrote:
Anyone who is not familiar with the Bonneville and its sunroof drain vulnerability doesn't understand why you should not use compressed air to clear them. The shop probably thinks is worked great, now that water is pooling in your floor area (unbeknownst to them). These drains separate and come apart with absolutely no help at all, so the compressed air likely sealed their fate. You may want to get on this before you develop other problems.



I had my passenger side front drain separate within the A pillar like you described. What a nightmare that was!

My options were remove the dash or remove the passenger side front door. I went the door route. I removed the door and popped out the door harness connector so I could have at least some access to route the drain tube back thru. Removed the drain line entirely; Reconnected the drain lines and used a bit of duct tape around the joint so it wouldn't disconnect again. Re-snaking the line up thru the a-pillar/dash was mind numbingly frustrating and kind of a guessing game until you get it right. Some combination of mechanics wire/weep whacker line is useful to help route it thru.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:39 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:11 pm
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Location: Alberta, Canada
Year and Trim: 2004 GXP, 2008 STS, 2008 DTS
peter wrote:
I had my passenger side front drain separate within the A pillar like you described. What a nightmare that was!

My options were remove the dash or remove the passenger side front door. I went the door route. I removed the door and popped out the door harness connector so I could have at least some access to route the drain tube back thru. Removed the drain line entirely; Reconnected the drain lines and used a bit of duct tape around the joint so it wouldn't disconnect again. Re-snaking the line up thru the a-pillar/dash was mind numbingly frustrating and kind of a guessing game until you get it right. Some combination of mechanics wire/weep whacker line is useful to help route it thru.

That doesn't sound like it was any fun at all. I can have the entire dash assembly out of the Bonneville (including the large aluminum frame structure) in about an hour now that I've done it a few times. If I had to do it on another Bonneville, that would be my approach. It gives easy access that way to repair the left and right drains. The big problem with taking the entire dash out is if someone has installed any aftermarket electronics.

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Bose Luxury Sound System w/Touch Screen Navigation, Addition of Factory XM, 2005 MY Antenna, OnStar Upgrade (3G),
RainSense Wipers, Backup Camera, '00 Style Door Panel Courtesy Lights, Heated Washer Solvent, 2X Remote Trunk Release,
Turn Signal Mirrors, Center Console Courtesy Lamp, Rear Outboard Heated Seats, PVD Chrome 18" Factory Rims, Upgraded
Carbon Fibre Appearance Interior Trim, Highly Modified Main Body Harness, Instrument Panel, Door, Door Panel & Headliner
Wiring Harnesses, Custom Fuse Box & Tire and Loading Information Decals, Additional Acoustic Insulation


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