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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:01 pm
Posts: 3
Year and Trim: 2000 Pontiac Bonneville SSEI
So to start off with, I'm a girl who has no idea what she is doing really (got my son trying to help me)
and has spent over $3000 on my car in repairs already by a shady local repair/car lot!
My car will crank but won't start. There is spark, there is adequate fuel pressure, the ECU has been replaced
there is no issues with the security system. I don't know what else to check. I can tell you that the spark plugs
are saturated with gas. That's about all I have at this point. Can someone please tell me what I can check next?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:43 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 6:11 pm
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Location: Chicago, IL
Year and Trim: 2003 SLE
Welcome to the club!

Are you absolutely sure there is spark? You can check for spark by removing the spark plug wire leads at the ignition coils. If you're standing directly in front of car, the coils are on the top corner of the engine. Remove a lead or two, try and start to car and have someone see if there is spark occurring.

A lot of the times, the crank position sensor fails on these engines and causes no start issues that can be hard to diagnose. You'll know it's toast if you have no spark.

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"Penelope" - 2003 SLE - 173k Miles
"Sydney" - 2000 Honda S2000 - 53k miles
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:20 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:21 pm
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Year and Trim: 2003 SSEi
1999 Park Ave. Ultra L67
Try pushing the gas pedal all of the way to the floor while cranking. This will put it into clear flood mode. The fuel injectors will stop adding fuel until it starts. This can take a bit until it starts, so keep trying. Fuel injected cars don't normally flood, so somethings not right. Ask family, friends, neighbors, coworkers for recommendations for a new shop.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:01 pm
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Year and Trim: 2000 Pontiac Bonneville SSEI
Wow, thank you so much for the responses. This is great! So my son did pull a plug and even with it being saturated with gas, it still had
really strong spark. I did try the pedal to the floor idea but that did not work either. Maybe I didn't do it long enough for fear of killing my
battery. How long should I try turning it over with my pedal to the floor? I don't have many neighbors that know anything about cars and
since I have already spent over $3000 at my local GM car lot, I know can't afford to bring it to another shop. I really love my car and don't
want to have to junk it. Even paid $3500 to AAmco to have my tranny rebuild. Any other ideas? Thank you so much for your help by the way!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:21 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 04, 2013 2:17 pm
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Year and Trim: 01 SSEI (black)
00 SSEI (green)
This may seem silly but I'd double check the correct spark plug wires from each coil are attached to their correct respective spark plug.

http://www.fixya.com/fullimage.html?src ... 098A58.jpg


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:25 am 
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Posts like an L67
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Year and Trim: 1993 SLE
1998 SE
2001 SSEI
2002 SSEI
Sorry to hear of your troubles.
Does it not start at all or does it only not start after the car has been driven?

I'm not sure what your former mechanic has done to the car, so I'll tell you a few things I would check.

First, is the liquid on the spark plugs definitely gasoline and not antifreeze?
I ask because these engines have problems with the original intake gaskets going bad, allowing antifreeze to get into places it doesn't belong--like onto the spark plugs.

The gas pedal pressed to the floor while cranking is an excellent idea.
Cranking the engine should be 15-20 seconds at most, with 2x as much time in between attempts, to cool the starter.

I hope you have a battery charger, so you can charge the battery up if it gets too low on charge.

Have your son look at the oxygen sensor wire to be sure it's not melted against the hot exhaust.
The O2 sensor mounts into the exhaust pipe right behind the engine.
He should look at the vacuum lines that run from the fuel pressure regulator on the front of the engine to a nipple beneath the supercharger snout and then to the MAP sensor on the back of the engine.
The line often breaks below the supercharger--which will cause the MAP sensor to read wrong and the fuel pressure regulator to send the maximum amount of gas to the engine.

One common problem is the fuel pressure regulator.
When it goes bad, it can add too much fuel.
A very simple check is to pull the vacuum hose off the fuel pressure regulator and check for any smell of gas.
Sometimes people actually have gas dripping out of the vacuum hose which is only supposed to have air inside.
After putting the oil cap back on, unplug the mass air flow sensor connector, clean the spark plugs up, make sure the spark plugs are properly gapped and see if it will now start up.

Something else to try....with the ignition OFF, disconnect the connector for the mass air flow sensor.
The MAF sensor is the large rectangular sensor mounted on the throttle body.
You can look on Rockauto.com for a picture.
Try starting it with the MAF connector disconnected.

This is a helpful link
http://troubleshootmyvehicle.com/gm/3.8 ... ondition-1
and
https://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/solvi ... k-no-start

Let us know what was done at the dealership in attempts to solve the problem.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:24 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:39 am
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Location: Ira, MI
Year and Trim: 2001 Bonneville
Sounds like my fuel pressure regulator problem I had. Just as previous post said, I pulled my vacuum line off the regulator and fuel spewed out...not supposed to be in there.

Spend $50 for a new regulator and she started right up.

Hope it works for you.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:01 pm
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Year and Trim: 2000 Pontiac Bonneville SSEI
Again, thank you all for the replies! This forum is truly a blessing. So I did remove the vacuum line from the regulator and it is all dry in there.
Over the weekend my son is going to replace the coolant temp sensor. The shop that I had my vehicle in replaced the plugs, wires, intake manifold
gaskets, rack & pinion and the power steering pump. Then I went out to the car the next day after the repairs and the engine shook really bad trying to run, I live on a hill so I just coasted down the hill and by the time I got to the bottom it smoothed out and then the next day it just would not start at all but will crank over just fine.
The liquid on the spark plug is definitely gas because you can really smell it. My son did check to make sure all the wires were put back correctly as well. So now I guess
I am down to the coolant temp sensor and trying the pedal to the floor thing. My son got an inline spark tester and tested each coil for spark and they all had spark. then we pulled a spark plug and with it's own spark plug wire he grounded it and the spark plug sparked very well even with the gas on it.
We did Disconnect the MAF sensor but it still wouldn't start. That also has been replaced as well as the EGR components and the ignition control module (I think that's what it's called, it's under the coil packs). We also bought a can of ether and sprayed it down the throttle body but it still didn't fire. I will keep you all posted with what I find out and again THANK YOU ALL so much for your help! :-)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:38 pm 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
Year and Trim: 2000 Bonniville SSEi L67
please check that the spark plug wires are routed to the proper cylinder

the wires start at the coils - they have numbers on each post the wire sits.the wires should go to correct cylinder

if you stand in front of car, the front cylinders from left to right are 1,3,5

and the rear bank are 2,4,6

you never know what the did at the shop.......

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past rides:
1996 SSEi
1992 GTP
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:18 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 9:37 pm
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Year and Trim: 1993 SLE
1998 SE
2001 SSEI
2002 SSEI
Just in case your son is unaware a strong spark is always blue. An orange spark is weak.
I hope the plugs have been clean enough to try starting, since gasoline soaked plugs won't start an engine.

If they are clean--since it wouldn't start with ether would seem that you're getting too much fuel mixing with too little air.

With work just done to the car, whatever is wrong now, may have been accidentally done during the repairs.

Most often this is poorly connected electrical connectors or ground wires or vacuum hoses.
The ground wires that get disconnected during the job are a rectangular black plastic ground block on the engine by the coils and another one on a stud that protrudes below the coils/icm.

I'd be very suspicious that a vacuum hose has broken.
The connections are all rubber which gets brittle and breaks---especially when they're moved to replace the manifold gaskets.
Often it's hard to see the break.
The entire vacuum harness, which includes the rubber fittings and plastic tubes, is about $30.
The vacuum hose assembly to the sensors is far more important than you'd ever suspect AND it's difficult to see all the rubber connection points.

Look at the MAP sensor vacuum and electrical connections (located on the top rear of the engine).
The MAP sensor data is used by the computer before all other sensors when starting the car.

Following the vacuum line from the MAP sensor, there's a connection below the snout of the supercharger where the vacuum originates.
Continuing along the line is the fuel pressure regulator vacuum connection and, finally, the supercharger valve.

If the MAP sensor gets a false reading from the vacuum leak or no reading due to a loose/broken electrical connector, it will seriously mess up the air/fuel mixture.
If the fuel pressure regulator gets too little vacuum, it feeds too much fuel to the engine.

During the LIM gasket job, all of the connectors on the throttle body and the flexible accordion-like hose to it get removed.
These include the MAF (mass air flow) sensor, throttle position sensor, idle air control valve and lastly the intake air temperature sensor (on the accordion).

The following also get disconnected but, since the car is not starting with starting fluid, then too much air shouldn't be the issue.
The metal flex tubing to the bottom of the EGR. This can split or leak at the connection points.
The fat vacuum hose that goes from the brake vacuum booster to the top of the supercharger is another possible very big leak area.
The PCV should have been replaced--but who knows if they bothered and sometimes the o ring gets left off making a vacuum leak.
The upstream oxygen sensor, mounted on the exhaust pipe at the back of the engine (not the other one on the catalytic converter) also gets disconnected--but this sensor is ignored during starting..

A very simple cause of too little air is a totally clogged air filter.
Another possibility is a blockage in the exhaust system.

If the car was running very poorly for a while, the catalytic converter could have gotten clogged--making it nearly impossible for the exhaust to leave the engine--effectively choking it.
A test for this is to either remove the upstream oxygen sensor or loosen the exhaust pipe at the engine and see if it now starts.







First, I'd make sure the spark plug wires are in the right order, as Peter said and kindly provided a link, too.
I'd be very suspicious that a vacuum hose has broken.
The connections are all rubber which gets brittle and breaks---especially when they're moved to replace the manifold gaskets.
Often it's hard to see the break.
The entire vacuum harness, which includes the rubber fittings and plastic tubes, is about $30.
The vacuum hose assembly to the sensors is far more important than you'd ever suspect AND it's difficult to see all the rubber connection points.

Look at the MAP sensor on the top rear of the engine.
The MAP sensor data is used by the computer before anything else when starting the car.
It has a vacuum hose and an electrical connector. Often , one of these breaks.
Following the vacuum line from the MAP sensor, there's a connection below the snout of the supercharger where the vacuum originates.
Continuing along the line is the fuel pressure regulator vacuum connection and, finally, the supercharger valve.

If the MAP sensor gets a false reading from the vacuum leak or no reading due to a loose/broken electrical connector, it will seriously mess up the air/fuel mixture.
If the fuel pressure regulator gets too little vacuum, it feeds too much fuel to the engine.

During the LIM gasket job, all of the connectors on the throttle body and the flexible accordion-like hose to it get removed.
These include the MAF (mass air flow) sensor, throttle position sensor, idle air control valve and lastly the intake air temperature sensor (on the accordion).

The following also get disconnected but, since the car is not starting with starting fluid, then too much air shouldn't be the issue.
The metal flex tubing to the bottom of the EGR. This can split or leak at the connection points.
The fat vacuum hose that goes from the brake vacuum booster to the top of the supercharger is another possible leak area.
The PCV should have been replaced--but who knows if they bothered.

The oxygen sensor, mounted on the exhaust pipe at the back of the engine (not the other one on the catalytic converter) also gets disconnected--but this sensor is ignored during starting..


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