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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:41 pm 
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Hey guys,

I need some help and advice, I just limped my 2000 SLE back to my driveway. Went to run some errands and about 3 minutes into the drive the car died out RPMs to zero power steering no longer worked engine was totally not running as if keyed off, the oil gauge dropped to zero the battery gauge dropped to below the half mark, all accessory's continued to work radio lights etc.... thought it was very strange decided to turn around and go home two minutes later exact same thing (it starts right back up after it dies)... got it home checked all fluid levels and they were fine no smells of burning anything or overt signs of what may be causing this. I let it idle in my driveway to see what would happen after a minute or so it died out this time wouldn't start back up right away turn the key no crank. After a minute of letting it sit it started back up again but continues to do die out every few minutes. In between dying the car runs perfectly. I'm already down to one car and this is my DD I NEED her to be up and running, I cant be stuck without a vehicle.


I don't have a code scanner so I don't know what if any codes its throwing currently. I have had trouble and yet to be fully resolved PO449 circuit failure code, which is triggering the SES light and check gas cap on DIC I replaced the vent, purge, and gas filler neck still throws PO449 I'm thinking its a bad wire going to the Vent valve just haven't been able to track it down yet. I also had the po420 code go on which may indicate a bad CAT, I put an spark plug anti Fowler on the rear 02 sensor a few months back and it never came back on. I don't know if these two codes/problems could potentially cause this I just want to provide as much possible info as possible to get the best advice . I also had brand new plugs and wires put on less then a month ago.


Thank you in advance Gentlemen...

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Last edited by MrJiggy716 on Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:01 pm 
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Check the MAF, unplug it and see if it will run or still die. If it still dies I would be leaning towards a bad crankshaft position sensor with those symptoms.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:10 am 
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Thanks, I will try that in the AM should I drive for a bit with the MAF off or just let it idle and see? Also where is the CPS located and if doesn't die what would that be an indicator of?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:01 am 
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If it doesn't die with the MAF unplugged then that sensor is bad and needs replacing. I would unplug it and let it idle to get up to temp completely, let it sit at hot idle for maybe 10 minutes then try a short drive. If it stays running then I would try a little longer drive. If it still runs then likely the MAF is bad.

When the MAF is unplugged, the PCM goes to a default setup and does it's best to properly meter fuel using other senors, so if it is bad and it is causing a stalling issue, it should run with it unplugged, but there may be a difference in gas mileage.

If the stalling issue still persists, the crankshaft position sensor is the next likely culprit. This one is a little more difficult to diagnose and replace. A bad crank sensor will not always throw a code, and usually will fail when at operating temp, often will allow the engine to start right back up immediately or within a few minutes. Replacement involves jacking the car up, removing the passenger side front wheel and splash guards. It is behind the harmonic balancer, the balancer bolt is torqued very tight and an impact is the easiest way to remove otherwise you have to lock the flexplate with vice grips and then try to bust it loose, not very fun but I have done it many times. A puller is required to remove the balancer, a balancer puller is preferred, but I have always just carefully used a three jaw puller. Once the balancer is off the crank sensor is right there and easily removed by pulling the plastic shrouding off and removing two 10mm bolts.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:27 am 
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I agree with ryan, I had the same exact issue the engine would die but all my lights and accessories would stay on. If it is the crankshaft position sensor it's like a thirty minute fix, and it will get worse ( i dont know happened with mine ). If it's dying with the MAF sensor plugged in and its kind of sputtering out that would be a bad MAF sensor. but if your engine is just dying clean like you just shut it off then most likely its the CPS.

Either way it's a fairly easy fix, doesnt sound like anything too serious. There is always the possibility of a clogged CAT which is choking the engine to death but before you spend 60$ on a MAF or 150$ on a CAT, spend thirty bucks on the crankshaft sensor and give that a try.

hope this helps.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:18 am 
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I had to replace the CPS, and it was like the ignition was totally turned off. It never threw a code though.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:10 pm 
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Yea the CPS never threw a code for me either, it was the most frustrating diagnosis ever. I switched out the ICM changed sparks and wires, brought it to the shop 2x and eventually said fark it and swapped out the CPS by myself and i havent had a problem since.... besides the LIM failure that blew up my engine... lol :banghead:

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:12 pm 
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+1 for MAF. That's textbook the same symptoms that mine showed when the MAF went bad. It didn't die when I unplugged the maf while idling, but would still die if I tried to drive it. Replaced the MAF and all was good.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:13 pm 
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I couldn't get to it just yet had some other things to attend to but planning on getting out there in a couple hours to disconnect the MAF and see... hopefully its the CPS much cheaper then a new MAF (seeing as how were 6 or so days away from the holidays) and with it being December with 4 feet of snow on the ground and temps at 1 with a negative 15 windchill pulling a used MAF out of the bone yard would be a Bear Grylls like adventure in itself... so weird it was running great drove it normally yesterday with no problems or tell tale signs something was amiss . Grrrr

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:41 pm 
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MrJiggy716 wrote:
I couldn't get to it just yet had some other things to attend to but planning on getting out there in a couple hours to disconnect the MAF and see... hopefully its the CPS much cheaper then a new MAF (seeing as how were 6 or so days away from the holidays) and with it being December with 4 feet of snow on the ground and temps at 1 with a negative 15 windchill pulling a used MAF out of the bone yard would be a Bear Grylls like adventure in itself... so weird it was running great drove it normally yesterday with no problems or tell tale signs something was amiss . Grrrr



Yea that was the most frustrating aspect of my crankshaft sensor failure, the car would run like a beast not a sputter in sight then just BAM engine stops. usually if a MAF is failing theres some idling issues and inconsistency in the power, atleast from the MAF failures i've seen.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:42 pm 
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Four feet of snow on the ground? How far are you from West Seneca? That is where we will be staying when we get out there for some time around New Years, would be crazy to see that much snow, I haven't seen snow like that in years!

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:07 pm 
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When my MAF failed, it would start right up and idle perfectly, but the second you'd put it into gear, it would die just like you turned the key off. They're a very finicky sensor haha.

Also, don't buy a new reman one. Get a used one from a junkyard or from Andrew (Harofreak00) if you do determine the maf is bad. The remans have a bad habit of failing quickly, and they're much more expensive.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:38 pm 
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I clean the MAF pretty regularly as part of maintenance It could be the problem, not sure. Sadly there would be no time to order from Andrew if it is, my 03 Impala is down with the dreaded LIM Dexcool failure and my SLE is now my only car and with the holidays so close I obviously need her. Actually wondering if the MAF is the problem if the MAF on my 03 Impala LS would work/fit (its down until the Intake gaskets can be replaced so its just sitting anyway)?


I mean she will start up and drive and has only not instantly started back up after failure once so far, but the engine will turn randomly off in the middle of driving as if you removed the key happens whether you're at idle or 50 (learned that the hard way on the thruway and nearly caused a pile up).

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:47 pm 
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If you've got the MAF from the Impala sitting around, there's no harm in trying, that's a really easy way to rule out if that's the problem or not :)

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:32 pm 
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dude the more you explain the issue the more my brain is yelling crankshaft position sensor at me, this may be the first post im completely sure of whats wrong with someones car.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:00 pm 
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CPS is about 90% assured, based on my own personal experience. MAF? no way..just unplug and if no change, not MAF.

All other symptoms are exactly the same with my LeSabre, 3800 nightmare...Took the dealer two visits, a full tank of gas, and 5 days of diagnosis to discover CPS failure. Cost me a fortune.

Have someone replace those CPS components immediately.
Car repaired immediately@!.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:19 pm 
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I wouldn't rule out the MAF until you try swapping it. Mine didn't change any symptoms by unplugging it, but it was indeed bad. Just want to make sure you try everything before throwing money into parts that might not be bad ;) If you swap the maf in from the Impala and it still does the same thing, then the Crank Sensor or ICM would be the next thing to tackle, since the crank signal runs through the icm.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:04 pm 
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OK Gentlemen I didn't get the chance to take out the MAF sensor and test it that way, as I was about to do that the sky's opened up and started pouring freezing cold rain (just my luck) and I didn't have room to pull it in the garage. I did take these vids to further show what exactly is happening. After these videos I got her running long enough without dying out to let her warm up and took a trip around the block no dying out, so I let her idle for about 30 minutes didn't die out again during that time... as where yesterday she died every few minutes.... I'm going to get her to my mechanic tomorrow hopefully if she did what she did today and doesn't die out every few minutes by driving if not ill call AAA and have her towed. He said he hook it up see if any codes are being thrown and if need be install a new CPS sensor for $40. I don't have the time or place to do it myself its either freezing cold and snowing or pouring rain as of late and I don't have a place to do it indoors, so not catching pneumonia is worth 40.00 plus parts to me lol. Assuming its the CPS of course, which I hope the videos will help you guys potentially identify the cause... :hail:


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152065789453427&l=4058085924272307096

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152065798143427&l=2535718104669552559

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Last edited by MrJiggy716 on Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:06 pm 
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and the SES indicator is on and has been on due to the PO449 code .... so its nothing new.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:28 pm 
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