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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:37 pm 
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Hi,

I hate to make this a first post but had a quick gander through the stickies and couldn't find what i was looking for.

My brother has a 2000 bonneville SSEi and the engine is toast. He's asked me to swap in a wrecker motor which I'm okay with but I'm not overly familiar with the GM 3800.

So my first question is what motor years are a direct swap for this engine. I believe it's the L67? (supercharged)

After that I'd like to know about any 'gotchas' i should know about when removing/installing the engine and if there's anything i should service while the "new" engine is out of the car (any particular gaskets, sensors, etc...)

Normally i wouldn't asked to be spoon fed like this but i'm crunched for time and because of my lack of experience with this car and motor I really don't want to bugger it up.

TIA.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:14 pm 
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An engine from a 97-03 Grand Prix, Bonneville, Park Ave Ultra, Regal GS will fit, with needing to swap the oil pan, mounts and accessories.

The one big "gotcha" is the "backwards bolt" from the engine to the trans, which needs to be accessed from the passenger side of the car, using long extensions to reach in between the engine and trans.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:50 pm 
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00Beast wrote:
The one big "gotcha" is the "backwards bolt" from the engine to the trans, which needs to be accessed from the passenger side of the car, using long extensions to reach in between the engine and trans.


I don't like said bolt... The first time I took out my transmission that one bolt took me forever to even find, let alone get to.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:19 pm 
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00Beast wrote:
An engine from a 97-03 Grand Prix, Bonneville, Park Ave Ultra, Regal GS will fit, with needing to swap the oil pan, mounts and accessories.

The one big "gotcha" is the "backwards bolt" from the engine to the trans, which needs to be accessed from the passenger side of the car, using long extensions to reach in between the engine and trans.


Ok thanks for this, can i assume that that the model years you listed would all be supercharged as well? My brother wants to keep the supercharger and again i don't know enough about these engines to know if you can drop in an NA engine and just bolt on the SC. My gut says it's likely not that simple.

Oil pan swap required because it bolts to the torque axis mount in the bonneville and doesn't in the others?

When you say accessories are you talking about belt accessories like the alternator, water pump, etc?

As for this "backwards" bolt does it have a technical name? I have an alldata subscription and would like to look up what it is and where i can find it.

Thanks so much for the information thus far.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:51 pm 
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The backwards bolt is just a normal bolt that comes from the passenger side of the car, attaching the engine to the transmission, all the other bolts come from the drivers side and attach the transmission to the engine.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:39 pm 
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ok so a little update.

I've located a donor motor out of an 03 bonnie, 153'000 kilometers.

Can anyone tell me what gaskets i can and can't re-use and any work i should do on this while it's out of the car? Like known issue type of maintenance (i.e. intake manifold gaskets). I already have a new water pump, plugs & wires, and motor mount.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:28 pm 
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As for what gaskets can and can't be reused technically I don't know, but I would replace any gasket you take off. The whole engine gasket kit is pretty reasonably priced. The lower intake and upper intake manifold gaskets are known for going bad, as well as the valve cover gaskets.

It all depends how much time, effort, and money you want to stick into it.

How many miles are on the car(transmission)?

If I already had my engine out I would replace the locking torque converter solenoid, I would probably take the time to put in a hardened 4th gear clutch hub.

But this is all up to you and what you would like to replace and how comfortable you feel working on the car.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:12 pm 
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Gaskets I would replace:

Oil Pan (may or may not just be a bead of silicone)
Lower intake manifold to head, with GM Aluminum replacement
Supercharger to Intake Manifold
Valve Cover
Coolant Elbows
Throttle Body

and obviously I'd give everything a good cleaning and replace things like spark plugs, wires, the front O2 sensor, fresh oil & quality filter, Fuel Filter, etc.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:23 am 
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Maybe change out the heater hoses while you're at it ? :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:41 am 
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And change the gasket thats is for the cover on the back of the block, very prone to failure.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:42 pm 
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Yeah, belts and hoses should be inspected and replaced as necessary.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:12 am 
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2000-2005 H/C body 3800 Oil Pan gasket is a $15 (US) rubber gasket.

Definitely put new valve cover, lower intake manifold (metal GM only -Fel Pro's metal gaskets have been failing lately), and supercharger gaskets.
Also, get the coolant elbows from the dealer -the parts store coolant elbows fail in less than a month.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:19 am 
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01bonneSC wrote:
And change the gasket thats is for the cover on the back of the block, very prone to failure.


I am on my 3rd motor and the first one had 130k on it and never leaked. This cover also has to be aligned correctly to get the seal unifom around the crank. If it shows no sign of leakage, I wouldn't touch it.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:52 pm 
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Thanks everyone for the input. I picked up an engine gasket kit, water pump, plugs, wires, and some other stuff today plus the engine from the wreckers. Tomorrow I'll be going to pick up a hoist and hopefully get at er.

When you say the gasket for the cover on the back of the block what cover are you referring to?

Also, when i bought my house the previous owner left me an engine stand. I went to put the engine on it today but the bolts it has are too small of a diameter. Would anyone know off hand what size the engine to tranny bell housing bolts are?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:32 pm 
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myfirstbonnie wrote:
01bonneSC wrote:
And change the gasket thats is for the cover on the back of the block, very prone to failure.


I am on my 3rd motor and the first one had 130k on it and never leaked. This cover also has to be aligned correctly to get the seal unifom around the crank. If it shows no sign of leakage, I wouldn't touch it.


Mine was "leaking", never changed it though. And I thought I remember a few people on the old forum saying that theirs were leaking as well.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:58 pm 
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I am in the same situation as you right now - just got a JY engine and going over it.

The bolts needed for the engine stand are M12 X 1.75 thread.

I am changing:
LIM Gasket, Plenum Gasket, & Fuel injector O-rings
Valve cover gaskets & grommets
Both coolant elbows, O-rings, Heater hose O-rings (GM parts)
Oil pan & oil filter housing gaskets (have to because doner car was W-body)
Exhaust manifold gaskets and any rusty exhaust bolts/studs

I am also changing the rear main crank seal and paper gasket for cover that holds the rear main seal.
This gasket covers both water and oil passages and I have seen claims on web where people have water => oil contamination from this gasket - but that has not been my experience.
At ~200k miles, I pulled the engine just to change this gasket because it was leaking oil on the ground very bad (found some of the cover bolts were loose).
At ~300k miles (i.e. now) it started leaking water to the outside at ~10 O-Clock position.
I was very careful and used lock-tite the first time, so not sure why it failed (have not performed autopsy yet).
On the doner engine, all of the bolts were tight but the gasket looked like it was working on getting a water leak at the same position.

GM re-designed this cover in 2007. I went to dealer and compared the old & new parts side by side. Unfortunately the only change is that the new part has a shoulder where the rear main is installed (to help keep it square and prevent you from driving it in too far).


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:28 pm 
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Roadrunner wrote:

I am changing:
Exhaust manifold gaskets and any rusty exhaust bolts/studs



If you want exhaust leaks go ahead and use cheap aftermarket gaskets. If you would prefer a no-hassle exhaust manifold gasket reuse the multi-layer steel gaskets that came from the factory. They'll last way longer than any aftermarket gasket.

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2002 GTP 40th Anniv Ed Coupe
2004 GTP Comp G 'Bottom-swapped'


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:25 am 
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olblueeyesbonne wrote:
If you want exhaust leaks go ahead and use cheap aftermarket gaskets. If you would prefer a no-hassle exhaust manifold gasket reuse the multi-layer steel gaskets that came from the factory. They'll last way longer than any aftermarket gasket.

Good point - glad you mentioned it.
Looks like GM ones are not very $.
OP probably does not need new ones.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:15 am 
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Well I just want to thank everyone for the information given.

My buddy and I swapped in the "new" JY motor over the weekend and the cars actually running better than ever... The car had issues when my brother bought it and he never looked into getting them fixed, the end result was a blown motor. After removing the motor from the car we learned that the transmission isn't original to the car and it had some really mickey-mouse mechanic work on it.

Besides non original, improper nuts and bolts being all over the place we spent probably 2 hours searching for the "backwards" bolt only to finally discover the darn thing was never installed when the engine/transmission was replaced. Most of the other bell housing bolts were loose and one had almost shook itself out completely.

Anyways she's all fixed now and purring like a kitten

Thanks guys!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:53 am 
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Ok so a little update and a (potential) problem.

Last night he asked me to take his car for a drive because he was concerned how the oil pressure gauge was acting. I started it up, and oil pressure guage was steady at the mid point (280 kPa?). Started driving and the guage was steady unless i punched the gas, then it would climb a tad (not quite to 3/4 mark). When i came to a stop at the stop sign the guage went to the 1/4 mark... Never to Zero but my cars all have idiot lights for oil pressure and not a guage, is this behavious normal?

Additional info: We took the oil pressure sensor from his old motor b/c we broke the one on the JY motor, AFAIK the sensor is working and my brother claims that the guage was steady with the last motor.

Does the pickup tube ever fall off on these cars? Or am i looking at a problem with the oil pump?

thanks


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