what about the WP? could the impeller have broken in some way that it is not moving coolant threw the system? that would explain why the coolant in the radiator is not hot, since its not moving threw the motor...

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-Matt

I'm with checking the water pump impeller by replacing it. I notice the reservoir tank is grungy looking. If the coolant has gone bad the system could have many problems, including a water pump that has an eroded impeller.

The way to check that would be when the system is hot to have the radiator cap off after cooling a few minutes (dangerous removal) and to see if speeding up the motor sucks down the coolant in the radiator and that new coolant comes flowing across from the upper radiator hose side.

Otherwise I'd replace the water pump--or at least remove it to check.

It snowed today, *dang*. When I get back from school tonight, I'm going to speed up the motor and watch the coolant. Thanks for the help, really appreciate it.

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93' Purple SE (Totaled)
92' White SSE (MIA)
06' Charger R/T
08' Altima Coupe
00' Buick Park Ave Ultra

Adversely, When I got out the car and proceeded to open the radiator cap which was cold, coolant splashed out. Don't worry it was warm, not even hot. With the cap off the coolant would travel down and none was coming from the reservoir tank which was full, BUT there isn't a full amount of coolant in the whole cooling system (if you get what I'm saying). I then revved the engine up and the coolant rose.

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93' Purple SE (Totaled)
92' White SSE (MIA)
06' Charger R/T
08' Altima Coupe
00' Buick Park Ave Ultra

Problem solved. I found a clog in the radiator. It was on the bottom passenger side of the radiator.

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93' Purple SE (Totaled)
92' White SSE (MIA)
06' Charger R/T
08' Altima Coupe
00' Buick Park Ave Ultra

Problem not solved! I changed the radiator and it only cooled my overheating problem down by a notch. I did the reverse flush procedure also. I'm not getting any heat and the car is heating up to 210 degrees. The radiator needed to be replaced anyway, so I'm not really mad at about it.

I pray that I do not have to change the heater core again!

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93' Purple SE (Totaled)
92' White SSE (MIA)
06' Charger R/T
08' Altima Coupe
00' Buick Park Ave Ultra

Did you ever change the water pump or tried running it without a thermostat? When it has gotten hot, did it peg the gague? If the gague was pegged, you would have no Idea what the temp reached and it could have overheated enough to damage the heads etc.

You gotta be sick and tired of that thing. I read through everything again and you have had a lot of suggestions and sounds like you have tried a lot.

Not to wear you out, but I have one more suggestion before you replace any more or try anything else. If it were me, I would hook up an aftermarket temp gauge; just under the hood to save time. THEN see what happens. I've been thinking about your gauges in general, what with the high oil pressure reading and all, that part of this (not the no-heat from the heater issue) may be a faulty reading off the temp gauge. It could be something with the cluster ... so eliminate everything by hooking up a cheapy aftermarket gauge to see where you really are. This is really crazy with the gauge reading hot and everything else, barely warm.

I am including a pix of where the sensor is for the GAUGE, since there is another one for the PCM. See the one that is for the "INDICATORS" or "GAGES" in lower left. That is what you would want to replace with the aftermarket unit and gauge. Hope that makes sense.

Note that it is near the back, driver side in this drawing.

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1993 Red SSE - Bone-Stock except for High Perf. (LOL) Power Antenna-Original Owner. Pushing 140K - It's the love of my wife.
'05 Magnum Hemi R/T "Great White" - Classic VW Beetles

No heat:

When you did the reverse flush, did you isolate the heater core as described in the link provided? If so, did water flow freely through the heater core? You won't get heat if coolant cannot flow freely through the core. If water did flow freely through the core when you reverse flushed it, and you are still not getting heat, check the hoses to (top hose) and from (bottom hose) the heater core when the car is warmed up - they should both be hot. If only one is hot, coolant is not flowing through the core and you won't get any heat. Other than a plugged heater core, poor coolant flow through the core can be caused by low coolant, an air (or exhaust gas) void, or a water pump that does not pump water.

If both heater hoses are hot and you still have no heat, then the fault is not in the cooling system but in the air handling system - most commonly, a failed air-mix door actuator.

Your earlier observation of a changing coolant level in the radiator when the car was revved suggests the water pump is working, but it could be possible, as others have suggested (not likely, but possible) that the impeller is slipping on the water pump shaft.

If you filled the coolant using the Techinfo procedure linked for you above, you should not have a large enough air void to starve the heater core of coolant.

Overheating:

I agree with redsled. If this were happening to me, I would pull the temperature sender and check its function using a pan of water and an ohm-meter. Once the sender and gauge are proven accurate, if I still saw higher than normal temperature, especially with a new radiator, I would then pay a shop to have a sniff test done to make sure I did not have a blown head gasket. If that turned out negative, I would change the water pump.

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1998 3.8 Dodge Caravan 214K
2000 3.3 Dodge Caravan 175K
1949 Plymouth Special Deluxe 4-dr sedan 25K (needs some work!)

I just thought that the line after the 200 mark was 210 degrees. I've ran without a thermostat before I changed the radiator, which really didn't help. The only thing I haven't replaced and never replaced on this car is the water pump. the 2 heater hoses does get hot and when I flushed the heater core I didn't notice any clog. I'm going to test the coolant temp sensor right now. After this I''ll order a water pump and if it doesn't work?!?!

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93' Purple SE (Totaled)
92' White SSE (MIA)
06' Charger R/T
08' Altima Coupe
00' Buick Park Ave Ultra

Just a reminder that, even if the sender/sensor tests good, that you could still have an issue with the instrument (dash) cluster. An aftermarket temp setup with its own sensor will eliminate both. A cheapy shouldn't cost too much

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1993 Red SSE - Bone-Stock except for High Perf. (LOL) Power Antenna-Original Owner. Pushing 140K - It's the love of my wife.
'05 Magnum Hemi R/T "Great White" - Classic VW Beetles

That redsled is one smart cookie! As he advises, you will want to make sure you don't have a problem with the dash gauge as well as the sender. I am thinking you could check the accuracy of the dash gauge a couple of ways. (I have not tried either of these methods, but I don't know why they wouldn't work.)

Method 1: This method only tests the dashboard gauge. With the sender in place, and with the engine off, turn the ignition to "run" and see what the gauge reads. Unplug the connector from the sender, measure the resistance, and compare to the chart. Plug the sender back in after measuring resistance and check the gauge temperature again. This could be done repeatedly as the engine is either warming up or cooling down. This should work well if the ohm/temp chart is available and can be trusted.

Method 2: This method tests the sender and the gauge and could be used when the ohm/temp relationship is unknown. Unscrew the sender from the engine, then re-attach its electrical connector. Immerse the wet end of the sensor in liquid. Give the sensor some time (?) to equilibrate. Measure the temperature of the liquid with a conventional thermometer and compare it to the dashboard gauge. Because it may take some time for the sensor to reach equilibrium temperature with the liquid, precise data may be more difficult to obtain with this method.

If you have an infrared (non-contact) thermometer, you could use it with the sensor out to directly measure the temperature of the wet end of the sensor, or with the sensor in place, to measure the temperature of the engine metal close to the sensor. Comparing the temperature of the nearby metal may introduce an even greater temperature lag error if the temperature is changing (during warm-up or cool-down, for example.) Once the engine has reached a reasonably steady state, (at operating temperature or when cold, for example) temperature measured near the sensor could be expected to be closer to that of the sensor itself.

Realize that air voids in the engine under the sensor can cause erratic readings. Make sure you fill the coolant using the procedure provided in Techinfo.

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1998 3.8 Dodge Caravan 214K
2000 3.3 Dodge Caravan 175K
1949 Plymouth Special Deluxe 4-dr sedan 25K (needs some work!)

Have we determined if the radiator fans are coming on?

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2006 Chevy Monte Carlo SS

Yea the fans are coming on. I check both temp sensors and got accurate readings using method 1. I checked the heater hoses again right after driving the car and they both were cold. I didn't have the heat on also, so could that be a reason why they both were cold?

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93' Purple SE (Totaled)
92' White SSE (MIA)
06' Charger R/T
08' Altima Coupe
00' Buick Park Ave Ultra

Nope. There is no valve to control flow to the heater core. The water pump moves coolant from the LIM to the heater core as soon as the engine is running. The heater hoses and the heater core should heat up before the radiator.

Did you fill the coolant at the thermostat opening? You must be sure that you have no big air voids in the engine that could be causing your troubles. If you are sure the cooling system has no trapped air, and your heater core is not clogged, then the only reason I can imagine there is no flow to the heater (cold hoses) is that the water pump is not circulating the coolant.

When you did the reverse flush, did you see really nasty chunks of sludge or debris come out of the system? Did you flush each component until water flowed freely? If the water pump itself is not bad, perhaps there are severe blockages within the cooling system that are preventing normal flow. But those should have been removed by the flushing. If they were, that leads you right back to the water pump.

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1998 3.8 Dodge Caravan 214K
2000 3.3 Dodge Caravan 175K
1949 Plymouth Special Deluxe 4-dr sedan 25K (needs some work!)

I actually fill the system up from the radiator until I saw enough coolant in the thermostat housing. There wasn't any chunks as I flushed it. I just went back outside and warm up the car, so I can feel the heater hoses again and the lower heater hose was a little warm, but the top wasn't. The flow of coolant goes through the lower heater hose, through the core then out the top right? If this is the case then I can place my bet on the water pump not working correctly.

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93' Purple SE (Totaled)
92' White SSE (MIA)
06' Charger R/T
08' Altima Coupe
00' Buick Park Ave Ultra

Check out this photo of the ports for the water pump from a series II engine.



Assuming that nothing much changed between the series I and series II engines, coolant is supplied to the water pump from the lower heater hose through the tensioner assembly, and from the lower radiator hose when the thermostat is open. Coolant moves through the front cover casting and is directed to the center of the impeller. The impeller pushes the coolant to the outside of the pump casting where it enters the front and rear banks of the cylinder block. It flows from the block, up through the cylinder heads, into the lower intake manifold, and out to the heater core through the coolant elbow and top heater hose. When the thermostat opens, the coolant flows through the top radiator hose to the radiator and back to the water pump through the lower radiator hose.





If you have a large air block in the top of the engine, you can see how it can starve the LIM (and therefore your heater core) of coolant. There would also be no flow to the radiator if the coolant level is low enough.

Please go to Techinfo, read the article on how to refill coolant, and follow this procedure exactly to make sure you don't simply have a big air void in the top of your engine. If your thermostat is not equipped with a jiggle valve, a small hole that serves as an air bleed, you will need to drill it.

If the problem persists when you are certain the system is properly filled, change the water pump.

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1998 3.8 Dodge Caravan 214K
2000 3.3 Dodge Caravan 175K
1949 Plymouth Special Deluxe 4-dr sedan 25K (needs some work!)

I try that first thing in the morning, I'll have to take it to a shop and let them drill a hole in it. What was the measurement for the thermostat, something over 16? hhhmmmm. I opened the bleeder screw on the thermostat housing as the car warmed up. I didn't see a stream of coolant, just bubbles and a little coolant like it was spitting. Also when I was bleeding the system from the housing leave the radiator cap off, the coolant goes up, overflows a little, then goes back down, is this normal?

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93' Purple SE (Totaled)
92' White SSE (MIA)
06' Charger R/T
08' Altima Coupe
00' Buick Park Ave Ultra

A 5/64" hole works nicely for the thermostat. This is pictured and explained in the Techinfo article on filling the cooling system.

Bubbles and spitting indicate trapped air.

The engine should be filled with coolant first at the thermostat opening until the coolant is up to the thermostat sealing flange. Then you add coolant slowly at the radiator. You will see and hear bubbles coming out of the engine through the thermostat opening that otherwise would be trapped in the engine. You keep filling slowly until the coolant level at the thermostat begins to overflow without falling back into the LIM.

Sounds like you may have tried to fill too quickly and trapped air. You should not open the bleeder until the thermostat has opened as indicated by a hot upper radiator hose.

Try again following the filling procedure closely. If you still have no heat, it is almost certainly a bad water pump or an unusual blockage.

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1998 3.8 Dodge Caravan 214K
2000 3.3 Dodge Caravan 175K
1949 Plymouth Special Deluxe 4-dr sedan 25K (needs some work!)

ok, I'm behind on my homework for my automotive class, so when I go to class tonight I'm gonna drill the hole in the thermostat. I got one last thought though, when I open the bleeder screw to the thermostat housing and coolant is at least spitting or spraying out, doesn't that clarify that the water pump is working? Also the hoses, especially the heater core hoses feel pressurized and are tight to squeeze, doesn't that also clarify that the water pump is working?

EDIT: I'm gonna drive the car without the thermostat to school tonight to see how it does with the new radiator.

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93' Purple SE (Totaled)
92' White SSE (MIA)
06' Charger R/T
08' Altima Coupe
00' Buick Park Ave Ultra