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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:02 am 
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Year and Trim: 1996 Oldsmobile Eighty Eight
Hello everyone,

I've lurked on this forum for many years, and now finally comes the time to ask a question of my own.

TLDR: Will a 4T60-E from a 1995 Oldsmobile Eighty Eight function properly in a 1996 Oldsmobile Eighty Eight (same RPO codes (M13/F17), both are 2.84 FDR)? And is it correct that I should remove the wiring harness from the replacement transmission (the 1995) and use the wiring harness from my original transmission (the 1996 Oldsmobile Eighty Eight’s transmission wiring harness)?

So far I have a new OEM radiator, a new OEM radiator cap, new OEM coolant hoses, twenty gallons of distilled water, three gallons of Havoline Dex-Cool coolant, new OEM thermostat, new OEM transmission cooler lines, new OEM axle seals, sixteen quarts of AMSOIL ATF, and the used 1995 replacement transmission itself.

My question is in regards to the interchangeability of a 1995 4T60-E to a 1996 4T60-E. It seems that it will work, as long as I remove the “trans harness” from the 1995 4T60-E and put the “trans harness” from my broken 1996 4T60-E transmission in place of it. However, I’ve found conflicting info and I could use your advice - I just want to double-check to make sure that I’m not making a mistake.

I have found many examples of people using the 1996-1998 4T60-E’s in older (1993-1995) vehicles, but I can’t find anyone who used an OBD 1.5 (?1994?-1995) 4T60-E in an OBD II vehicle. I’m really hoping it will work, as I really have no other option at this point.

I purchased the 1995 4T60-E because it was the only one that I could find with under 180,000 miles anywhere. This one has only 83,257 miles on it, but it’s from a 1995 Oldsmobile Eighty Eight. My car is a 1996 Oldsmobile Eighty Eight. Same exact FDR (2.84) and RPO codes – M13/F17. I understand there may be a slight 2-3MPH difference in my speedometer after the swap, which is perfectly fine with me. I just want to make sure that everything else will function as intended, and that my logic is correct in removing the “trans harness” from the replacement 1995 4T60-E and using the “trans harness” from my original 1996 4T60-E transmission. The salvage yard’s software did not show this as a compatible interchange, and that’s why I’m worried - but from everything I read online, it seems it will work fine. I know the interchangeability lists on the junkyard’s software can be a bit overly specific at times. I really any help possible.

Thank you,








\/\/\/ People who said yes (similar scenarios with 4T60-E's) \/\/\/
............................................................................................................................
https://www.gmforum.com/buick-172/4t60e ... lp-297210/

Post #7

"FWIW, I have successfully put a 97 4T60 into a 93 LeSabre. The only things that had to be done was swapping the wiring harness. The 93 needed the 93 harness."
............................................................................................................................
https://www.a-body.net/forums/archive/i ... -3595.html
............................................................................................................................
http://www.automotiveforums.com/t916248 ... _obdi.html
............................................................................................................................
https://www.beretta.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24413

Post #3

“94-96 4t60e's are interchangeable... Only difference is a small change in ratio that does not affect the ECU or shifting.”
............................................................................................................................
1992/topic16430.html

Post #10

“A 1996 Trans should work fine for him.. the 1994-95 PCM is not smart enough to notice a difference...”
............................................................................................................................





............................................................................................................................
\/\/\/ People who said no \/\/\/
............................................................................................................................
http://www.60degreev6.com/vb5/forum/mis ... ect-thread

Post #1
“One thing people don't tell you about the '96 cars is that lots and lots of parts are one-year-only on them, including the transmission.”
............................................................................................................................
https://www.gmforum.com/1992-1999-91/19 ... le-220622/
............................................................................................................................
Post #2
post461509.html
“No, 95 is a one year only transmission unfortunately.”
.....................................................................................................................................
Some of these links are to cars that aren’t powered by the 3800 engine, but they still mention interchangeability of 1995-1996 4T60-E’s in the threads, so I included them for reference.
............................................................................................................................


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:30 am 
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Reading what you found, it looks like the simple answer is kinda.

You need to take the temp sensor from the 1996 trans and relocate it to the 1995 trans, If the harness connectors are any different you need to use the 1996 harness. Sounds like the 96 PCM needs the 96 sensor for everything to work properly.

As far as the physical side, if the TCC doesn't bolt up you'll have to elongate the holes on the flywheel to match. I don't think that was different, but worth paying note to before you get everything back in the car and find that one.

JRS3800 is the go-to for this kind of info, if he's still around he'll chime in.

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'92 Olds Trofeo - Fair weather DD
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:48 pm 
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Year and Trim: 1996 Oldsmobile Eighty Eight
Edit: Accidental double post.


Last edited by 1996 Oldsmobile on Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:50 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:54 am
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Year and Trim: 1996 Oldsmobile Eighty Eight
MattStrike wrote:
Reading what you found, it looks like the simple answer is kinda.

You need to take the temp sensor from the 1996 trans and relocate it to the 1995 trans, If the harness connectors are any different you need to use the 1996 harness. Sounds like the 96 PCM needs the 96 sensor for everything to work properly.

As far as the physical side, if the TCC doesn't bolt up you'll have to elongate the holes on the flywheel to match. I don't think that was different, but worth paying note to before you get everything back in the car and find that one.

JRS3800 is the go-to for this kind of info, if he's still around he'll chime in.


Thank you for your reply, MattStrike!

Hmm, this is the first that I've heard of having to swap out the temp sensor. I saw a post, https://www.gmforum.com/buick-172/can-y ... ar-244730/, where “banned3800” mentioned about that on a 92 4T60-E going into a 96, but I didn't know that the 95 and 96 temp sensor had to be swapped. This is good information, and I appreciate it. Is there any way to make sure the 1995 4T60-E has a temperature switch and not a transmission fluid temperature sensor like the 1996 4T60-E? Also, from what I've read, the harness connectors are the same, it's just that the '95 is OBD 1.5 whereas the harness connector on my '96 (the original transmission) is OBD II.

Thank you for your advice too, about the TCC.

And it's funny you mention that about JRS3800, he was the main guy who seemed extremely knowledgeable and who I wanted to send a private message to. Unfortunately, I can’t, since I just registered. I get the message ...”We are sorry, but you are not authorised to use this feature. You may have just registered here and may need to participate more to be able to use this feature."


Looks like he last posted on April 07, 2019. Would you mind possibly sending him a private message with the link to this thread (1992/topic52342.html)?

Also, I posted this same question over on the GMForum, and a Moderator there said that he gave it a 70% chance of working. Here's the thread link: https://www.gmforum.com/oldsmobile-171/ ... lp-312624/

I'm going to try posting on the Pontiac Fiero forums too before I dive into this job next week.

Thanks again! :)


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:20 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:54 am
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Year and Trim: 1996 Oldsmobile Eighty Eight
MattStrike wrote:
Reading what you found, it looks like the simple answer is kinda.

You need to take the temp sensor from the 1996 trans and relocate it to the 1995 trans, If the harness connectors are any different you need to use the 1996 harness. Sounds like the 96 PCM needs the 96 sensor for everything to work properly.

As far as the physical side, if the TCC doesn't bolt up you'll have to elongate the holes on the flywheel to match. I don't think that was different, but worth paying note to before you get everything back in the car and find that one.

JRS3800 is the go-to for this kind of info, if he's still around he'll chime in.


Hey MattStrike, was the temp sensor swap only necessary if the older (replacement transmisson) used a "temp switch"? I ask because I found on this website http://www.gmtuners.com/tech/440_4T60E_4T65E.htm "Pretty much all 1994-newer 4T60-Es had the PWM TCC solenoid and a fluid temp sensor." - and on this thread (https://www.gmforum.com/buick-172/can-y ... ar-244730/) "banned3800" mentions the temp sensor vs. temp switch, but I thought it was only the 4T60's (non-E version) that had the temp switch. I'm nervous about swapping anything out internally unless it's absolutely necessary. I trust your advice, I just wanted to ask to double-check - I'm not sure if there's something about the 1995 4T60-E's temperature sensor that my car won't like or what issue it would cause, or if it would work okay.

Thank you! :)


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:56 am 
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This is getting to be about the limit of my knowledge, but starting with the 440t4 every transmission had a temperature switch for the TCC control. In '92 the H-body cars all got PWM TCC control and a temperature sensor. The PCM reads the sensor and uses PWM to turn the TCC on and off.

The difference is that in '96 they changed the sensor to one that threads into the valve body (instead of laying in the lower channel/fluid path) and has a different readout (I'm guess it's a different resistance vs. temperature profile), so the '96 PCM won't know what to do with the older sensor. So putting an older trans in a '96 would need the '96 sensor installed somehow (valve body swap, lay it in place of the older style sensor, whatever).

Putting a '96 trans in an older car seems like the PCM wasn't smart enough for that sensor calibration to make a difference.

_________________
Blow all the things! Wait, I meant boost. Boost!
Image

Runs:
'93 Pontiac Bonneville SSEi - Twincharged, manual, and lots more! Build thread
'97 Chevy Camaro - 3800 supercharged, T5, T-tops
'05 Cadillac STS - V8, AWD, her DD
'92 Olds Trofeo - Fair weather DD
'84 GMC Sierra Classic - Twin turbo 3800
'97 Buick LeSabre - L67 winter DD
'92 Pontiac Bonneville SSE future project

Doesn't run:
'87 Buick LeSabre T-type - future victim
'67 Buick LeSabre - future victim


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