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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:33 pm 
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Year and Trim: 1998 SE
Hi there, I've got a 98 bonnie and I've been battling it for a while now. Problems are: extended crank and rough idle almost every time. Also for about 30 seconds after starting it, it's got a wicked whine that eventually fades away. After the idle evens out, (sometimes takes 5 seconds sometimes a full minute) It idles perfectly. Runs like a top. While accelerating, the car spits sputters and chugs until you let off the gas enough so it will even itself out. If I push on the gas too hard I get back firing in addition to the spitting and sputtering. Car throws the "bank 1 running to lean" code. I've tried everything I can think of to help this. New fuel filter, got a used but functional(I think) MAF sensor, tested the fuel pressure, and it read 31-33psi, New acdelco plugs, and wires. :banghead: Any feedback is appreciated, thank you!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:14 pm 
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Welcome.

Does the whine change in pitch when you move the steering wheel?

It sounds like a clogged catalytic converter. Drive the car at night, the cat will probably be faintly glowing.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:51 pm 
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Nope no change in the whine if I turn the wheel. It's not a power steering sounding whine, it's closer to bad ac compressor whine, but from inside the engine. And I just took it for a 15-20 mile drive and the cat didn't glow.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:28 am 
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Your fuel pump is bad.
Fuel pressure of 31-33 PSI is much too low.
It should be at least mid 40s at idle.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:57 pm 
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Thanks Mike, I will be putting in a new fuel pump soon. Ill keep you posted!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:32 pm 
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Might also be a good idea to check the fuel pressure regulator. Simple check is to pull the vacuum line off it, if there's fuel/odor in the vac line then the regulator is bad.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:37 pm 
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Checked the fuel pressure regulator and no fuel comes out of the vacuum line. I thought maybe it could still be bad because of the backfiring?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:00 pm 
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At it's age, a new FPR is probably a good idea anyway. For the price and work involved, I'd try a new one before I swapped the fuel pump. I actually have done exactly that. The FPR was partially to blame when I had similar symptoms, that got worse as it warmed up. A new fuel pump fixed it entirely.

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WHITE WHINE - 1992 SSE Supercharged 236.26 ci (.040 Over) 15.090 at 90.2 MPH on old engine w/ slipping trans & melted O2 sensor - Gen 3 M62 and matching TB, Gen 2 Pully, Zillamotorsports Ported LIM, YT 1.72 Roller Rockers, SII FPR & Injectors, Hypertech Thermomaster chip w/ 160 Thermo, TransGo Shift Kit, Infinity/Pioneer Speakers and 10" Subs, 1300 watts, 140 amp Alternator, Ricepipe CAI w/ heatshield, Pilot Angel Eye Foglights, Clear Corners, '02 17" Chrome Bent 5's, Magnaflow F-Body Muffler and Hi-flo Cat, Ceramic Coated Ported Exhaust Manifolds, Fan Override
2009 G8 GT - Sport Red Metallic, loaded, SOLO Axlebacks, Rotofab Intake, Tuned, autodim mirror, removed intake manifold cover, HSV GTS triple gauge pod, two tone red-hot shifter and HSV SuperSport steering wheel, GXP rear sway bar and diffuser, 3.45 diff and various Camaro suspension bits, LED Taillights


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:23 pm 
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I've got a 95 parts car so I'll switch both at the same time


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:35 pm 
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The fuel pumps cross reference, but the pressure regulators don't. IMO, put in a new regulator first then see what changes. Dropping the fuel tank to swap pumps is a pain in the arse. And for that reason, I wouldn't put in a used fuel pump.

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WHITE WHINE - 1992 SSE Supercharged 236.26 ci (.040 Over) 15.090 at 90.2 MPH on old engine w/ slipping trans & melted O2 sensor - Gen 3 M62 and matching TB, Gen 2 Pully, Zillamotorsports Ported LIM, YT 1.72 Roller Rockers, SII FPR & Injectors, Hypertech Thermomaster chip w/ 160 Thermo, TransGo Shift Kit, Infinity/Pioneer Speakers and 10" Subs, 1300 watts, 140 amp Alternator, Ricepipe CAI w/ heatshield, Pilot Angel Eye Foglights, Clear Corners, '02 17" Chrome Bent 5's, Magnaflow F-Body Muffler and Hi-flo Cat, Ceramic Coated Ported Exhaust Manifolds, Fan Override
2009 G8 GT - Sport Red Metallic, loaded, SOLO Axlebacks, Rotofab Intake, Tuned, autodim mirror, removed intake manifold cover, HSV GTS triple gauge pod, two tone red-hot shifter and HSV SuperSport steering wheel, GXP rear sway bar and diffuser, 3.45 diff and various Camaro suspension bits, LED Taillights


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:26 pm 
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Alright, I put a new fuel sender and pump in. No difference. Also double checked that the cat wasn't clogged. Next will be the fuel pressure regulator.. I don't think that's bad though because I took the vacuum line off for about 5 minutes while it was running and the nipple didn't spew any gas, or smell of gas at all. Anyone have any other suggestions?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:27 pm 
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Since your previous fuel pressure reading was too low, it has to be a fuel delivery problem.
If there are no kinked fuel lines or leaks, the fuel filter is new, if the fuel pump is new---and new pressure test readings are the same as before, then the only thing left is the fuel pressure regulator, as J Wikoff had recommended.
My sincerest apologies to you since I was unaware that a faulty fuel pressure regulator could cause too low a fuel pressure at idle.
I know what a PITA the fuel pump is to replace.
I had believed that it could only cause fuel starvation above idle speeds.
Even Airtex , who manufactures fuel pumps failed to mention a fuel pressure regulator as a possible cause of low pressure on their fuel pressure page--they only mention it as a cause of excessive pressure:
http://www.airtexproducts.com/news-blog-fuel-pressure-tests.aspx
FPR as a cause of low fuel pressure isn't mentioned until you find another page on their site, specifically about fuel pressure regulators:
http://www.fuelpumpu.com/news-training-all-about-the-fuel-pressure-regulator-does-it-need-to-be-replaced.aspx


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:29 pm 
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Do you guys think it could be a PCV sensor or valve? I read somewhere that could be the reason it's throwing the code, but wasn't sure if that could do it. I'll be ordering a FPR online soon so I'll let you know if that does anything after I install it!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:34 pm 
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Choices for low fuel pressure are pretty limited.

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WHITE WHINE - 1992 SSE Supercharged 236.26 ci (.040 Over) 15.090 at 90.2 MPH on old engine w/ slipping trans & melted O2 sensor - Gen 3 M62 and matching TB, Gen 2 Pully, Zillamotorsports Ported LIM, YT 1.72 Roller Rockers, SII FPR & Injectors, Hypertech Thermomaster chip w/ 160 Thermo, TransGo Shift Kit, Infinity/Pioneer Speakers and 10" Subs, 1300 watts, 140 amp Alternator, Ricepipe CAI w/ heatshield, Pilot Angel Eye Foglights, Clear Corners, '02 17" Chrome Bent 5's, Magnaflow F-Body Muffler and Hi-flo Cat, Ceramic Coated Ported Exhaust Manifolds, Fan Override
2009 G8 GT - Sport Red Metallic, loaded, SOLO Axlebacks, Rotofab Intake, Tuned, autodim mirror, removed intake manifold cover, HSV GTS triple gauge pod, two tone red-hot shifter and HSV SuperSport steering wheel, GXP rear sway bar and diffuser, 3.45 diff and various Camaro suspension bits, LED Taillights


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:46 pm 
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No. As J Wikoff said, there are very few things which will cause low fuel pressure. My previous post listed them all.
A stuck open PCV won't cause low fuel pressure.
Low fuel pressure causes the lean code to set.


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