hey guys. my future father-in-law just bought a 1995 bonneville ssei with 100000 miles for my other half for $900 and the two of us have completely worked over this car. it was wrecked and sat for a few years which is why it was so cheap. ill get out of the way what i need to know first before i get into what we have already done and the history of the car.

first i need to know how to change the supercharger oil. ive never done it with the m62 before. i have done it with the m90 where the filler hole is on the side of the snout facing the front of the car but the m62 on the 95 has the filler hole somewhere else. is that it on the back side of the snout facing the rear of the car? also what oil is best to use in the m62? i gave the pontiac dealership part number to the chevrolet dealership and they drew a blank and just gave me some supercharger oil that they said "should work in all superchargers used in gm cars." sorry but the guy couldnt even point out the supercharger on the car so forgive me if i dont take his word for it.

the traction control and abs does not work. the lights are on in the dash and the button in the center console does not work. help me out here because i have not got a clue in the least about this one, because this beast really needs traction control in the rain.

what is the length of the two serpentine belts? nether one looks the greatest so that will be getting done soon.

can you put a smaller snout pulley on the supercharger for more boost without tuning? or would it be wiser to use an overdrive crank pulley?

when should the timing chain be changed? and is there anything that should be replaced at the same time as the timing chain?

this this an interference engine? what i mean by that is this. if the timing chain snaps and the valves stop moving but the crank keeps going, will the pistons slap valves? my zx3 focus will have no valve slappage but the svt will due to the much higher compression.

well that is it for questions on things we need/want to do. now for the general history on the car and what we have done so far.

we repaired the body damage, replaced the fuel pump and filter, changed the motor and transmission oil, a few bad bulbs, fuses, and air filter. we drove the car awhile and it developed a problem. the car just randomly cuts off dead while driving down the road. there is no warning stumble, miss or stutter. it is going just fine one minute and the next second the engine is dead and the car is beeping at you. sometimes you can kick into neutral and crank it back up without even loosing alot of speed and other times you have to park the car for better than an hour before it will start back up. the restart time can vary in time by any amount between those.

we think we fixed that tho. we replaced the crank sensor and cam sensor that are behind the harmonic balancer because one of the guys that helped work on the car used a pry bar at one point to remove the balancer and we thought he may have damaged one of those sensors. i have been driving the car all week and have not had a problem yet so i think we may have fixed it.... i hope.

so the next order of business is what i asked about in the first place so let me know.

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the focus was my first car so obviously it has become my money pit and 580whp play toy.
i bought a kia soul to "grow up" and have something that is practical with a back seat and gets good mileage.
my wife brought the ssei bonneville into the mix to piss me off because it does everything the kia does better.
i then bought another ssei bonneville

http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/fo ... =56&t=1690 For a write up on how to change the M62 oil.


This maybe due to a bad ABS sensor at the wheel, other members may chime on this for better advice.


Not sure on the length, you can check out Rockauto.com and search for your make and model and in the description it should have the length.


Yes you can put a smaller SC pulley on, Intense and ZZP make modular pulley kits. Never heard of using an overdrive crank pulley.



This list may help out, I am not sure on the timing chain tho


Post some pics up of the car

A pry bar... holy poop! lol. They make pullers just for removing pressfit balancers like ours. The cam sensor won't typically cause a stall, but the crank sensor could. If that didn't fix the problem, a next likely suspect is the ICM. You might be aware, but it'll take a special scanner/cable combo to scan for codes. OBD 1.5 or hybrid is what they normally call it.

The SC oil plug is tucked behind the nosedrive shaft, facing the passenger side at an upward angle. Unless the plug has been replaced, it'll be a 4.5 mm allen socket head. GM's supercharger oil is the right stuff, and is pretty much the only thing you should use. Be prepared, the old stuff will smell like the dog ate some fresh poop then puked it up 20 minutes later. (poop twice in one post... I'm on a roll). A dealer tech once told me they run on engine oil... so, yeah.

The TC/ABS could be a wheel speed sensor (built into the hubs, so you'd need a new one), could be a fuse or relay (can't remember if there's any relays involved), or the control units. A scan would narrow it down real quick, and would likely take a dealer or mechanic scan to tell you. You can test the wheel speed sensors yourself. Search for recent posts by laimsl (I might have butchered the spelling, check the memberlist), he recently diagnosed his himself. Since they are both out, I suspect a speed sensor.

I can't remember the belt lengths, but any auto store will have a listing. Don't use Dayco polycog belts. They seem to fail quickly.

The stock pulley on a 92/93 SSEi will be a decent step. It's about a 1/4" smaller. A crank overdrive pulley might be impossible to find. Check the fuel pressure and if there's any fuel vapors in the vacuum line leading to the fuel pressure regulator. Since you have a new pump in there, you'll also want to make sure the regulator is supplying the proper pressure at idle with and without the vacuum line attached. 42/47 is the proper range I think. A series II L67 regulator might help keep up with the smaller 92/93 pulley.

There isn't much talk of timing chain failure. Maybe some stretch/slop. Of the 4 92-95's I've put much work on, only one has ever gotten a new timing chain, and that is only because I went in to replace the cam magnet and the cam gear had to come off anyway. The other three have a combined 800k or so miles on them.

I'm not positive, but I don't think it's an interference engine. The compression is only 8 or 8.5:1.

EDIT: A note on the post above, the Intense or ZZP pulley setups won't work on the M62. You can get about any size pulley you want from Pulleyboys.com if you can't get a stock 92/93 pulley.

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WHITE WHINE - 1992 SSE Supercharged 236.26 ci (.040 Over) 15.090 at 90.2 MPH on old engine w/ slipping trans & melted O2 sensor - Gen 3 M62 and matching TB, Gen 2 Pully, Zillamotorsports Ported LIM, YT 1.72 Roller Rockers, SII FPR & Injectors, Hypertech Thermomaster chip w/ 160 Thermo, TransGo Shift Kit, Infinity/Pioneer Speakers & a 10" Alpine Type R Sub, all the watts, 140 amp Alternator, Ricepipe CAI w/ heatshield, Pilot Angel Eye Foglights, Clear Corners, '02 17" Chrome Bent 5's, Magnaflow F-Body Muffler and Hi-flo Cat, Ceramic Coated Ported Exhaust Manifolds, Fan Override, Monroe Reflex struts, red calipers
2009 G8 GT - Sport Red Metallic, loaded, SOLO Axlebacks, Rotofab Intake, Tuned, autodim mirror, removed intake manifold cover, HSV GTS triple gauge pod, two tone red-hot shifter and HSV SuperSport steering wheel, GXP rear sway bar and diffuser, 3.45 diff and various Camaro suspension bits, LED Taillights

Do not pulley down on this engine until you are sure you have 0 KR.... For the time being leave the stock pulley on there and lets get you 100% right first...lol stock power for that motor is 225 Hp and 275 Ft Lbs( 100% bone stock )

as for the stalling I agree chances are good for it to be a Crank sensor, or the ICM... The Cam sensor will not cause a stall, but can throw off the Sequential Fuel Injection if its bad... The cam sensor is simply a Cylinder #1 TDC reference for the PCM/Fueling

Now there are grounds on both sides of the car under the carpet, they are taped up quite well... On the drivers side it would be to the left of your left foot and on the right to the right of your right foot.. Check and clean those( Free )...

The L67 is an 8.5 : 1 compression engine, but if it ever did jump time it could impact valves as its not a 0 deck motor, the piston crown actually comes above the top of the deck... Its extremely rare that we ever see this tho....


as for the ABS/ Traction Control.... Are the lights on as soon as you start the car? say you disconnected the battery, when you start the car are the lights on right away? It would be a good idea to have the system scanned to see what codes are stored tho... Could be anything from a bad pressure sensor to a circuit fault in the pump all the way to a wheel speed sensor...


Pay attention to funky drivability issues, its common for the PCM's in the 94-95's to bite the dust...

is the ICM the ignition control module? isnt that the booger underneath the coil packs? if so we had indeed thought of that but we have not replaced it yet. that is about $150-$300 depending where you get it and what brand you get. im going to take a pic of another little doohickey later and post it because i dont know what in the heck it is. we thought it might have something to do with the issues we were having since the plug that goes to it was kinda crumbling but we dont know what it is called or does.

thanks for all the words of advice guys! ill try to get some pictures here later. if you can spot where the new back half of the car was welded on then you are a hero. no doubt you will see the paint line on the roof where we taped it off and spray canned the back half to "match" paint it but you will never find where the welds were. even if you look inside the door jam in the back you wont see it unless its pointed out to you. im still in disbelief that it turned out as well as it did especially since it was our first one ever.

ill check out wheel speed sensors and get it scanned for codes asap. i know its probably not wise to try and throw alot of power adders at such an old car due to all the little things that are bound to be either worn out or wearing out but it wont be driven hard. its just nice to do these things to it for kicks and giggles and to have it if you want it on some occasions.

and yeah the SC oil stinks terrible. i way overfilled the one in my focus the first time i changed the oil and that crap stinks when it starts burning off. and it really sucks to suck it up into the a/c vents going down the road. i modified a m90 awhile back to put onto my 02 svt focus. started out with the jackson racing m45 and realized i could make the 90 work on there but i ended up going back to the m45. the 90 doesnt like super high rpms or nitrous very much. little heat machines those boogers. apparently the nitrous will chew the coating off the fins in the S/C and the S/C also makes peak boost at around 12,000 rpm and i was spinning it at upwards of 17,500 rpm lol.

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the focus was my first car so obviously it has become my money pit and 580whp play toy.
i bought a kia soul to "grow up" and have something that is practical with a back seat and gets good mileage.
my wife brought the ssei bonneville into the mix to piss me off because it does everything the kia does better.
i then bought another ssei bonneville

the pcm better not bite the dust! i hate changing out those things! let me check the abs t/c light. it is on as soon as you crank the car but i dont know about disconnecting the battery. i assume the traction control and abs light will still come on as soon as you crank the car even if you disconnect the battery.


forgot to mention that when the car would die on us we checked for fuel pressure at the little test port on the fuel rail and had pressure there but the car would not start. pull the intake off and spray some ether into the TB and the car would crank for a second and die. so fuel was getting to the injectors but something was telling the injectors not to spray which is why we drew the conclusion of crank sensor. would the ICM cause the injectors not to pulse? i figured it would just stop all spark and you would flood the motor trying to crank it if the ICM was bad.

_________________
the focus was my first car so obviously it has become my money pit and 580whp play toy.
i bought a kia soul to "grow up" and have something that is practical with a back seat and gets good mileage.
my wife brought the ssei bonneville into the mix to piss me off because it does everything the kia does better.
i then bought another ssei bonneville

I would look for a junk yard ICM... Yes thats the Ignition Control Module under the coils... All 3800's from 93 to the end of production use the same ICM... Look for the newest one you can find, and if you find a superchagred car look for blue tabs on the bottom of the coils, if you find blue tabs you might want to pick them up as well...

When they run right the 3800 SC is decently strong for such a large car....

as well I am very curious, when you changed the oil did the oil pan have a coarse threaded plug with a rubber gasket or a fine threaded plug with a washer?

If the PCM died, it could be changed in minutes... No reflashing... Just swap the EEPROM over to the new PCM and all is well...

i couldnt say about the drain plug. it has been months ago and i dont even remember if it was me or the GF's dad under the car. what do the different drain plugs refer to?

_________________
the focus was my first car so obviously it has become my money pit and 580whp play toy.
i bought a kia soul to "grow up" and have something that is practical with a back seat and gets good mileage.
my wife brought the ssei bonneville into the mix to piss me off because it does everything the kia does better.
i then bought another ssei bonneville

Just read your post again.... The Crank and Cam Sensor info passes through the ICM....


The crank sensor is a dual channel...

3x's pulse for spark and 18x's pulse for fueling...

Hard to tell you what direction to go in...

Some of the 95 Production Series I engines actually had the series II light weight crank and series II oil pan...

GM did a lot of freaky things with these engines and never changed the numbers.... The 95 Blocks that used the Series II oil pan and crank can't be mixed with a 94 block or parts if that makes sense... 95 was a real one off freak year for the 3800 line...

whoa whoa whoa you just completely lost me. what is EEPROM? and isnt the pcm stuck up under the dash or some nonsense where you have to completely disassemble the car to get at it? thats freaking sweet that you dont have to do all that. that focus is the worlds worst to change out the ECU or PCM. ive done it twice...

_________________
the focus was my first car so obviously it has become my money pit and 580whp play toy.
i bought a kia soul to "grow up" and have something that is practical with a back seat and gets good mileage.
my wife brought the ssei bonneville into the mix to piss me off because it does everything the kia does better.
i then bought another ssei bonneville

3 small screws, a wing nut or 2 and the hush panel comes out of the way... unplug 3 connectors( red, white and blue.... no joke there ) and there are 3 tabs, push the PCM up push the tabs towards the firewall and pull the PCM out....LOL


EEPROM iirc is Electronically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory

and i had a duh moment on the ICM thing sry bout that. i only just woke up about 45 minutes ago and im still groggy. night shift FTW i guess. ive gotta get up and get moving guys but ill check back in later with answers to your questions. except the oil pan drain plug question tho. ill get back to you on that the next time i change the oil.

_________________
the focus was my first car so obviously it has become my money pit and 580whp play toy.
i bought a kia soul to "grow up" and have something that is practical with a back seat and gets good mileage.
my wife brought the ssei bonneville into the mix to piss me off because it does everything the kia does better.
i then bought another ssei bonneville

omg that makes me so happy that the pcm is easy. ill put that down on the list of things to grab at the local pull-a-part. what year models can i use the pcm from? 94 and 95?

_________________
the focus was my first car so obviously it has become my money pit and 580whp play toy.
i bought a kia soul to "grow up" and have something that is practical with a back seat and gets good mileage.
my wife brought the ssei bonneville into the mix to piss me off because it does everything the kia does better.
i then bought another ssei bonneville

The same PCM is used in the 94-95 Bonnevilles( all of them ), any of the 3800 Trans Sport 3800 Vans( 94-95 ), Lumina APV 3800 94-95 if you can find one... The Buick Le Sabre 94-95 as well as the Park Ave 94-95... Same goes for the 94-95 Olds 88 and 98...

okay im back with pictures. i want you guys to tell me if you can spot where the welds were/are for the new rear quarter panels. i took special attention to the driver side because you really cannot tell at all on the passenger side but i still doubt you will be able to tell from the pictures. you cant tell unless you cant touch it with your bare hands and even then its very tough.





this is where you might be able to tell a little something



sorry i didnt realize until i started looking at the pictures on photobucket how blurry they were. my phone takes really bad pictures in twilight. if its broad daylight or pitch black it takes good pics but when its just starting to get dark they always seem to turn out this way. ill try again later this week.

for now the car is bone stock. but i would like to know what the best and easiest way to check for knock retard is. the fuel pressure is within the tolerances you gave so that shouldnt be a problem. we have run 87 octane in the car for the last 2 tanks to try and exasperate the cutting off problem to make sure we fixed it. when we drove it before on 93 it would just cut off once per tank but once we accidentally put 87 in it and the car was cutting out every 10-15 miles so we are putting some 87 through it again to see what it will do. we will run a tank or two of 93 through it before we/i check for knock. still need to know how to do it though.

one more thing. we changed the s/c oil today. we only got about 3 oz of nasty stinky black oil out of it and got about 5 or 6 oz of the new oil into it. we think its probably never been changed. opinions or comments on this?

_________________
the focus was my first car so obviously it has become my money pit and 580whp play toy.
i bought a kia soul to "grow up" and have something that is practical with a back seat and gets good mileage.
my wife brought the ssei bonneville into the mix to piss me off because it does everything the kia does better.
i then bought another ssei bonneville

completely forgot to ask about cold air intakes. any particular brands that are better than the rest? we want better power and mileage as well as a little more noise out of the supercharger without making the car idle like junk just from pulling off that little screen. im not expecting a 40whp gain from an intake or anything. just looking for a few bolt ons to start off with and maybe spend $50-$100 on a decent intake.

_________________
the focus was my first car so obviously it has become my money pit and 580whp play toy.
i bought a kia soul to "grow up" and have something that is practical with a back seat and gets good mileage.
my wife brought the ssei bonneville into the mix to piss me off because it does everything the kia does better.
i then bought another ssei bonneville

Don't run 87, ever, unless you stay out of the boost. Not going above maybe 3 psi. Chipping a piston is a possibility.

A CAI will require a bit of piecing together. Search "rice pipe" or "intense fwi".

To check for knock, you need a live data scanner. I forget which model works for 94/95..

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WHITE WHINE - 1992 SSE Supercharged 236.26 ci (.040 Over) 15.090 at 90.2 MPH on old engine w/ slipping trans & melted O2 sensor - Gen 3 M62 and matching TB, Gen 2 Pully, Zillamotorsports Ported LIM, YT 1.72 Roller Rockers, SII FPR & Injectors, Hypertech Thermomaster chip w/ 160 Thermo, TransGo Shift Kit, Infinity/Pioneer Speakers & a 10" Alpine Type R Sub, all the watts, 140 amp Alternator, Ricepipe CAI w/ heatshield, Pilot Angel Eye Foglights, Clear Corners, '02 17" Chrome Bent 5's, Magnaflow F-Body Muffler and Hi-flo Cat, Ceramic Coated Ported Exhaust Manifolds, Fan Override, Monroe Reflex struts, red calipers
2009 G8 GT - Sport Red Metallic, loaded, SOLO Axlebacks, Rotofab Intake, Tuned, autodim mirror, removed intake manifold cover, HSV GTS triple gauge pod, two tone red-hot shifter and HSV SuperSport steering wheel, GXP rear sway bar and diffuser, 3.45 diff and various Camaro suspension bits, LED Taillights

i can only speak for myself on the running the 87 but i personally never got into the boost on the 87 for fear of detonation. ive run boosted and high compression cars in the past and understand well enough the purpose of the higher octane fuel. i was basically ordered to do it because it supposedly exasperated the problem with the car cutting out. i dont believe that is true but since i am not the owner of the car i figured i would do as i was told and do damage control for as long as the car was in my hands. just went on a 700 mile road trip today without and issue and filled it up with 93 when the gas light came on down at the beach so that shouldnt be a problem now. i think we can say with certainty that the issue has been resolved and that 87 should never be put through it again.

im not up with quite all the jargon on here yet. what is FWI? fender well intake is the only thing i can come up with that makes sense. i assume you mean search for the rice pipe or fwi on this site and not ebay. i dont know what your rules are for buying things over the forum here. ill see if i can find them. i figure you have to have a certain post count and have to be a member for a length of time before you can buy sell or trade on this forum?

also please get back with me on what model scanner works for 94/95. i assume i would need to hook the scanner to a laptop and make a datalog right?

_________________
the focus was my first car so obviously it has become my money pit and 580whp play toy.
i bought a kia soul to "grow up" and have something that is practical with a back seat and gets good mileage.
my wife brought the ssei bonneville into the mix to piss me off because it does everything the kia does better.
i then bought another ssei bonneville