It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 1:48 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 57 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:41 am 
Offline
Retired Moderator
Retired Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 6:08 pm
Posts: 7671
Location: Midland, Michigan
Year and Trim: 2002 SE
Ok, What else can cause a crank & no start / no spark?

I swapped out the ICM with a known good one off of my parts car, no luck.
Fuses good.

Crank sensor is next...

Is there anything else that can cause no spark?

_________________
Ryan
Image
2003 Bonneville SSEi - The Black Mirror SOLD!
2002 Bonneville SE - The Mutt Complete 2004 SLE interior, drivetrain, and body harness swap, ECC swap, HUD swap, black GXP wheels, GXP headlights and tinted tails - SOLD
2003 BMW 540i M Sport, 2001 BMW X5 4.4i, 2010 GMC Acadia, 2017 Grand Design Imagine 3150BH
1982 Cutlass Supreme - The fun one

MattStrike wrote:
It was the worst week of my life! *pause, drinks beer... smiles* But I'm better now!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Crank, no spark
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:46 am 
Offline
SSE Member
SSE Member

Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:16 pm
Posts: 124
Year and Trim: 1997 SSE
I would have to go with crank sensor myself, unless for some real odd reason the PCM died, and I highly doubt that.

_________________
-Chris
Image
1992 Chevrolet Lumina Z34 3.4L TDC v6, Hydramatic 4T60E
1990 Pontiac Turbo Grand Prix 3.1L v6 Hydramatic 4T60
1997 Pontiac Bonneville SSE 3.8L v6, Hydramatic 4T60E
1987 Chevrolet Camaro 5.0L v8, Hydramatic 700R4


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Crank, no spark
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:50 am 
Offline
Resident Gearhead
Resident Gearhead
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 10:30 pm
Posts: 8781
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Year and Trim: 2014 Cadillac XTS Vsport.
Crank sensor is the #1 suspect. The ignition switch could cause it, but would be unusual.

_________________
*Gone, but not forgotten* - Black 2000 SSEi, HIR Headlights, Angel Eyes fogs, 3rd brake light overlay, hi-flo cat, 180 degree thermostat, HS 1.9 rockers, LSx yellow springs, Intense FWI, PCM, shift kit, push rods, and 3.4 Pulley. ZZP Power Log.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Crank, no spark
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:47 am 
Offline
Retired Moderator
Retired Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 6:08 pm
Posts: 7671
Location: Midland, Michigan
Year and Trim: 2002 SE
Ok, we got a new crank sensor and still no start... I am going to try the PCM from my parts car and see what that does.

Looks like the new sensor will be getting cleaned up and brought back to the store.

_________________
Ryan
Image
2003 Bonneville SSEi - The Black Mirror SOLD!
2002 Bonneville SE - The Mutt Complete 2004 SLE interior, drivetrain, and body harness swap, ECC swap, HUD swap, black GXP wheels, GXP headlights and tinted tails - SOLD
2003 BMW 540i M Sport, 2001 BMW X5 4.4i, 2010 GMC Acadia, 2017 Grand Design Imagine 3150BH
1982 Cutlass Supreme - The fun one

MattStrike wrote:
It was the worst week of my life! *pause, drinks beer... smiles* But I'm better now!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Crank, no spark
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:39 pm 
Offline
Retired Moderator
Retired Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 6:08 pm
Posts: 7671
Location: Midland, Michigan
Year and Trim: 2002 SE
Well, we tried everything suggested in the FSM and then we decided to try and swap out the ICM with Wes' car. We put the ICM in and it fired right up :banana:

Bad news though, there was a tick. Sounded like a lifter tick, and it went away after about five minutes, but It isn't good. This car has NEVER had not one single noise from the engine no matter how long it sat....

SO, I need an ICM now..

_________________
Ryan
Image
2003 Bonneville SSEi - The Black Mirror SOLD!
2002 Bonneville SE - The Mutt Complete 2004 SLE interior, drivetrain, and body harness swap, ECC swap, HUD swap, black GXP wheels, GXP headlights and tinted tails - SOLD
2003 BMW 540i M Sport, 2001 BMW X5 4.4i, 2010 GMC Acadia, 2017 Grand Design Imagine 3150BH
1982 Cutlass Supreme - The fun one

MattStrike wrote:
It was the worst week of my life! *pause, drinks beer... smiles* But I'm better now!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Crank, no spark
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:26 pm 
Offline
Retired Admin/Techinfo Admin
Retired Admin/Techinfo Admin

Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 2:08 pm
Posts: 26009
Location: Space Coast, or at least it used to be
Year and Trim: 03 SLE, 95 SE, 95 TS SE
If you tried to start it enough times you may have kicked the oil out of the lifter.... If it stays quiet you'll be fine...

Glad you got the issue solved... :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Crank, no spark
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:58 am 
Offline
Retired Gearhead
Retired Gearhead
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 12:44 pm
Posts: 598
Location: Memphis, TN
Year and Trim: 1993 SSE (NA)
crash93ssei wrote:
Well, we tried everything suggested in the FSM and then we decided to try and swap out the ICM with Wes' car. We put the ICM in and it fired right up :banana:

Bad news though, there was a tick. Sounded like a lifter tick, and it went away after about five minutes, but It isn't good. This car has NEVER had not one single noise from the engine no matter how long it sat....

SO, I need an ICM now..
I probably sound like an evangelist for loose connectors, but; my 93 has some of the flakiest pin connectors I have ever seen, esp. the ones that run to the PCM, and the ICM/Crank sensor/cam sensor harness. The female pins seem to spread open just enough to cause intermittent ignition issues. Just unplugging and replugging during a component swap has fooled me into thinking I found the bad part, just to have the problem pop again. IF the problem comes back after a new ICM, holler at me and I will share my shade tree method of searching for these loose female ... er ... connectors :banghead:
According to the FSM, the diagnosis for many intermittent problems, is connector and wiring related. Not sure if it is model-wide, but that is a weak spot in my (wife's) 93. But it keeps me off the streets. :P

_________________
Image
1993 Red SSE - Bone-Stock except for High Perf. (LOL) Power Antenna-Original Owner. Pushing 140K - It's the love of my wife.
'05 Magnum Hemi R/T "Great White" - Classic VW Beetles


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Crank, no spark
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:59 pm 
Offline
Retired Moderator
Retired Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 6:08 pm
Posts: 7671
Location: Midland, Michigan
Year and Trim: 2002 SE
Thanks for the help guys. I will be awaiting a new ICM from harofreak now. :)

_________________
Ryan
Image
2003 Bonneville SSEi - The Black Mirror SOLD!
2002 Bonneville SE - The Mutt Complete 2004 SLE interior, drivetrain, and body harness swap, ECC swap, HUD swap, black GXP wheels, GXP headlights and tinted tails - SOLD
2003 BMW 540i M Sport, 2001 BMW X5 4.4i, 2010 GMC Acadia, 2017 Grand Design Imagine 3150BH
1982 Cutlass Supreme - The fun one

MattStrike wrote:
It was the worst week of my life! *pause, drinks beer... smiles* But I'm better now!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Crank, no spark
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:56 pm 
Offline
Retired Moderator
Retired Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 6:08 pm
Posts: 7671
Location: Midland, Michigan
Year and Trim: 2002 SE
Update:

Still not running :sad5:

The ICM I received from harofreak did not fire on cylinders 1 & 4, the front coil. I swapped it out with three other coils and still no fire.

This was the ICM from his parts car that was sitting in the trunk in "unknown" condition from a junkyard, so I just figured it was a bad one.

Well, I swapped the ICM out again and then it fired right up on all six cylinders :???: The only thing I could think was that somehow when I went to swap out the ICM with my parts car, I got them mixed up and accidently slapped the original back on and it didn't work. So, with the now working ICM on, I did an oil change and let the car sit and idle a bit. It ran for about five minutes then died again....

I got ahold of boosty and he sent me the ICM off his '98? Regal GS. The Regal was a running car when he sent me the ICM, and he said the ICM would work on the '93, also I checked online and it looks like ( according the the autozone website ) they have the same part number.

I put that ICM on the '93 and hit the key.... rolls over fine, won't start :???:

I am getting very confused. Good thing I have a spare car, too bad it isn't S/C though.


Not sure where else to look.
I checked the ground buss on the drivers side just in case, it was like new.
All fuses are good
We checked for continuity in the wires between the ICM and crank sensor and all wires were perfect.



Anyone have any other suggestions?

_________________
Ryan
Image
2003 Bonneville SSEi - The Black Mirror SOLD!
2002 Bonneville SE - The Mutt Complete 2004 SLE interior, drivetrain, and body harness swap, ECC swap, HUD swap, black GXP wheels, GXP headlights and tinted tails - SOLD
2003 BMW 540i M Sport, 2001 BMW X5 4.4i, 2010 GMC Acadia, 2017 Grand Design Imagine 3150BH
1982 Cutlass Supreme - The fun one

MattStrike wrote:
It was the worst week of my life! *pause, drinks beer... smiles* But I'm better now!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:11 pm 
Offline
Retired Admin/Techinfo Admin
Retired Admin/Techinfo Admin

Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 2:08 pm
Posts: 26009
Location: Space Coast, or at least it used to be
Year and Trim: 03 SLE, 95 SE, 95 TS SE
Have you swaped out the PCM?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:15 pm 
Offline
Retired Moderator
Retired Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 6:08 pm
Posts: 7671
Location: Midland, Michigan
Year and Trim: 2002 SE
Yup, swapped the PCM also.

_________________
Ryan
Image
2003 Bonneville SSEi - The Black Mirror SOLD!
2002 Bonneville SE - The Mutt Complete 2004 SLE interior, drivetrain, and body harness swap, ECC swap, HUD swap, black GXP wheels, GXP headlights and tinted tails - SOLD
2003 BMW 540i M Sport, 2001 BMW X5 4.4i, 2010 GMC Acadia, 2017 Grand Design Imagine 3150BH
1982 Cutlass Supreme - The fun one

MattStrike wrote:
It was the worst week of my life! *pause, drinks beer... smiles* But I'm better now!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:20 pm 
Offline
Retired Admin/Techinfo Admin
Retired Admin/Techinfo Admin

Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 2:08 pm
Posts: 26009
Location: Space Coast, or at least it used to be
Year and Trim: 03 SLE, 95 SE, 95 TS SE
*dang*... What is it with the 93's lately... Not sure what to tell you at the moment Ryan..


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:22 pm 
Offline
Retired Moderator
Retired Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 6:08 pm
Posts: 7671
Location: Midland, Michigan
Year and Trim: 2002 SE
Yeah, probably going to have to wait for the weekend and I am going to do some digging. I will swap each ICM out several times and see if I get repeatable results with any of them.

Other then that, I am pretty much lost :ack:

_________________
Ryan
Image
2003 Bonneville SSEi - The Black Mirror SOLD!
2002 Bonneville SE - The Mutt Complete 2004 SLE interior, drivetrain, and body harness swap, ECC swap, HUD swap, black GXP wheels, GXP headlights and tinted tails - SOLD
2003 BMW 540i M Sport, 2001 BMW X5 4.4i, 2010 GMC Acadia, 2017 Grand Design Imagine 3150BH
1982 Cutlass Supreme - The fun one

MattStrike wrote:
It was the worst week of my life! *pause, drinks beer... smiles* But I'm better now!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:50 pm 
Offline
Retired Gearhead
Retired Gearhead
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 4:34 pm
Posts: 3606
Location: Buffalo New York
Year and Trim: 99 SSEi
Are you getting spark on any of the coils with Boosty's ICM?

_________________
2006 Chevy Monte Carlo SS


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:57 pm 
Offline
Retired Moderator
Retired Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 6:08 pm
Posts: 7671
Location: Midland, Michigan
Year and Trim: 2002 SE
Nope, no spark on any coils.

I think I have a wire problem though...


I checked the connector with a paperclip for loose connections, all were tight.


I just got done swapping the ICMs a bunch of time and this is what I got...

Boostys - no spark
haros - no spark
boostys - no spark
original - no spark
parts car - fired engine for a sec, then no spark
boostys - no spark
haros - fires on four cylinders, as it originally did when I got it
goostys - no spark
parts car - no spark
original - runs fine, and is outside running right now


:bluetwitch: :bluetwitch: :bluetwitch:


Looks like I will be tracing wires for continuity from the ICM to the PCM and where ever else they go :roll:







EDIT

OK, not running anymore... stalled out and no spark. Ran for about 10 minutes

_________________
Ryan
Image
2003 Bonneville SSEi - The Black Mirror SOLD!
2002 Bonneville SE - The Mutt Complete 2004 SLE interior, drivetrain, and body harness swap, ECC swap, HUD swap, black GXP wheels, GXP headlights and tinted tails - SOLD
2003 BMW 540i M Sport, 2001 BMW X5 4.4i, 2010 GMC Acadia, 2017 Grand Design Imagine 3150BH
1982 Cutlass Supreme - The fun one

MattStrike wrote:
It was the worst week of my life! *pause, drinks beer... smiles* But I'm better now!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:09 pm 
Offline
Retired Gearhead
Retired Gearhead
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 12:44 pm
Posts: 598
Location: Memphis, TN
Year and Trim: 1993 SSE (NA)
crash93ssei wrote:
Yeah, probably going to have to wait for the weekend and I am going to do some digging. I will swap each ICM out several times and see if I get repeatable results with any of them.

Other then that, I am pretty much lost :ack:
Sounds like a repeat of my night mare. If you have it running, you might try wiggling the harness at the ICM and PCM plugs to see if any of them make it die. (OOPS.. just saw your last post) Also, I think yours may have the PCM reference ground on one of the two studs the the ICM base mounts to. On my non-sc, the front stud has the battery ground and the rear one is for the PCM. Because of the way the double nuts work, it is prone to getting a few degrees loose. When I swapped out the ICM-Crank-Cam Sensor harness, I found a loose pin on the one going to the cam sensor. So that harness is something to think about replacing.

Don't know if it's any help, but the circuit below is for Crank/Cam Sensor errors. I know you don't have Check Engine, but may help in troubleshooting. I think you said you've been in the FSM, so this may be for naught.
My experience: I found that (with the loose connector pin at ICM), I could be easily fooled into thinking the ICM I had just swapped was the fix, only for it to show up again later... a symptom of flaky wiring or connectors. (I'm up to 3 cents)
Image

_________________
Image
1993 Red SSE - Bone-Stock except for High Perf. (LOL) Power Antenna-Original Owner. Pushing 140K - It's the love of my wife.
'05 Magnum Hemi R/T "Great White" - Classic VW Beetles


Last edited by 93RedSled-SSE on Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:11 pm 
Offline
Retired Gearhead
Retired Gearhead
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 4:34 pm
Posts: 3606
Location: Buffalo New York
Year and Trim: 99 SSEi
Next time it's not sparking try unplugging the cam sensor.

IIRC 93 was the last year that the ICM grounded through the mounting bracket. Try removing the ICM & mounting plate from the mounting bracket. Clean any corrosion from the top of the bracket, both sides of the mounting plate & bottom of the ICM. Apply a thin coat of dielectric grease to all four surfaces & reassembly.

_________________
2006 Chevy Monte Carlo SS


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:16 pm 
Offline
Resident Gearhead
Resident Gearhead
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 10:30 pm
Posts: 8781
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Year and Trim: 2014 Cadillac XTS Vsport.
Also check to see if there is still 12 volts on the pink wire on the connector.

_________________
*Gone, but not forgotten* - Black 2000 SSEi, HIR Headlights, Angel Eyes fogs, 3rd brake light overlay, hi-flo cat, 180 degree thermostat, HS 1.9 rockers, LSx yellow springs, Intense FWI, PCM, shift kit, push rods, and 3.4 Pulley. ZZP Power Log.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:14 pm 
Offline
Posts like a Northstar
Posts like a Northstar
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:09 pm
Posts: 2363
Location: Michigan
Year and Trim: 2002 Buick Park Ave
thats so weird. when we used my icm, it fired right up.

so, it was running with the original for about 10 minutes, then just cut off?

I know we checked the wires from the cps to the icm, what about continuity between the icm, and pcm?

_________________
Image
92 Olds 98. L67, Gen 3 M62, 2.55 pulley, FWI, PLIM, 1.8 YTs.

yourgrandma wrote:
High


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:32 am 
Offline
Retired Moderator
Retired Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 6:08 pm
Posts: 7671
Location: Midland, Michigan
Year and Trim: 2002 SE
well, I got home this morning and said what the heck.. I hit the key and it fired right up on the same ICM that it died on last night :???:

_________________
Ryan
Image
2003 Bonneville SSEi - The Black Mirror SOLD!
2002 Bonneville SE - The Mutt Complete 2004 SLE interior, drivetrain, and body harness swap, ECC swap, HUD swap, black GXP wheels, GXP headlights and tinted tails - SOLD
2003 BMW 540i M Sport, 2001 BMW X5 4.4i, 2010 GMC Acadia, 2017 Grand Design Imagine 3150BH
1982 Cutlass Supreme - The fun one

MattStrike wrote:
It was the worst week of my life! *pause, drinks beer... smiles* But I'm better now!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 57 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Related topics
 Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. Spark Plugs Copper versus double platinum on Waste Spark DIS

92'RegalGS

9

5285

Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:44 pm

crash93ssei View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. She's Alive!!! But Now Throwing TPS Code 21...

nunesjeff

3

1416

Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:19 am

nunesjeff View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. 97 Won't crank over

Steven

9

3521

Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:23 pm

Steven View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Car won't crank

JMH1950

13

1621

Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:48 pm

2000Silverbullet View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. 94 SE won't crank.

roadkills

8

2299

Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:05 pm

Aaron88 View the latest post

 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group


phpBB SEO