Ok, I fired it up again and let it run untill it died, about five - ten minutes. Unhooked cam sensor, still no spark.

Looks like I will be checking the wiring between the PCM and ICM this weekend.

_________________
Ryan

2003 Bonneville SSEi - The Black Mirror SOLD!
2002 Bonneville SE - The Mutt Complete 2004 SLE interior, drivetrain, and body harness swap, ECC swap, HUD swap, black GXP wheels, GXP headlights and tinted tails - SOLD
2003 BMW 540i M Sport, 2001 BMW X5 4.4i, 2010 GMC Acadia, 2017 Grand Design Imagine 3150BH
1982 Cutlass Supreme - The fun one

Both the crank sensor & ICM can be heat sensitive when failing. After it stalls try cooling the crank sensor by spraying it with a garden hose for a couple minutes. If it still doesn't start then try spraying the ICM.

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2006 Chevy Monte Carlo SS

Well, I tested for continuity in the wires between the PCM and ICM. All of the wires ( pin A, B, C, D, & L ) had good continuity from ICM to PCM, and moving the connectors around had no effect.

I am almost wondering if somehow the crank sensor and ICM failed at the same time

_________________
Ryan

2003 Bonneville SSEi - The Black Mirror SOLD!
2002 Bonneville SE - The Mutt Complete 2004 SLE interior, drivetrain, and body harness swap, ECC swap, HUD swap, black GXP wheels, GXP headlights and tinted tails - SOLD
2003 BMW 540i M Sport, 2001 BMW X5 4.4i, 2010 GMC Acadia, 2017 Grand Design Imagine 3150BH
1982 Cutlass Supreme - The fun one

I don't think we've ever seen an ICM & crank sensor die at the same time, although you could be the first.

Any chance the battery could be bad? If you have a voltmeter then connect it to the battery and see how low the volts drop while cranking. If it drops below 11 volts then try jumping or swapping batteries.

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2006 Chevy Monte Carlo SS

I am sure the battery is more then good. It has cranked the car over at speed dozens of times along with I had the radio on for a bit. It still cranks over just fine.

I think that I am going to bite the bullet and just buy another crank sensor and swap out ICMs and see where that gets me...

I miss this car soooo bad

_________________
Ryan

2003 Bonneville SSEi - The Black Mirror SOLD!
2002 Bonneville SE - The Mutt Complete 2004 SLE interior, drivetrain, and body harness swap, ECC swap, HUD swap, black GXP wheels, GXP headlights and tinted tails - SOLD
2003 BMW 540i M Sport, 2001 BMW X5 4.4i, 2010 GMC Acadia, 2017 Grand Design Imagine 3150BH
1982 Cutlass Supreme - The fun one

But... all these problems and no codes (?).
I would say run the "paperclip check" on the pins in the big PCM connector, closest to the firewall, if you haven't already. Mine past all the continuity tests since I had a big ol' set of test leads poking the pins. Look for any where the paperclip goes in even the slightest bit easier than the others. If you have the little panel off, it shouldn't take but a few minutes.

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1993 Red SSE - Bone-Stock except for High Perf. (LOL) Power Antenna-Original Owner. Pushing 140K - It's the love of my wife.
'05 Magnum Hemi R/T "Great White" - Classic VW Beetles

Yup, just the normal "12" code.

All pins at the ICM connector have the same resistance when pushing a paperclip into them. I just swapped out the ICM three times and couldn't get the car to run on any of them again.

Seems like the original problem had to be a bad ICM and crank sensor

_________________
Ryan

2003 Bonneville SSEi - The Black Mirror SOLD!
2002 Bonneville SE - The Mutt Complete 2004 SLE interior, drivetrain, and body harness swap, ECC swap, HUD swap, black GXP wheels, GXP headlights and tinted tails - SOLD
2003 BMW 540i M Sport, 2001 BMW X5 4.4i, 2010 GMC Acadia, 2017 Grand Design Imagine 3150BH
1982 Cutlass Supreme - The fun one

IIRC - there's a few things you never said if they were checked or not.
1 - voltage to the ICM
2 - cleaning corrosion off the ICM mounting plate, bracket & ICM.
3- voltage drop while cranking.

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2006 Chevy Monte Carlo SS

That is one thing I was going to ask, but completely forgot. What wire to the ICM is supposed to be power & how many volts should it have with key on, not cranking.


Do you really think that voltage drop could be even a remote possibility if the engine cranks over at normal speed? I will check anyways, but it doesn't seem to me like that could be a problem.

Corrosion is clean from all places and dielectric grease is applied to all ICMs and bracket.

_________________
Ryan

2003 Bonneville SSEi - The Black Mirror SOLD!
2002 Bonneville SE - The Mutt Complete 2004 SLE interior, drivetrain, and body harness swap, ECC swap, HUD swap, black GXP wheels, GXP headlights and tinted tails - SOLD
2003 BMW 540i M Sport, 2001 BMW X5 4.4i, 2010 GMC Acadia, 2017 Grand Design Imagine 3150BH
1982 Cutlass Supreme - The fun one

Standing in front & looking at the ICM - it's the wire on the left. Pink some years, pink with black stripe on the others. Should have 12 volts with key on. If you have 12 volts then have someone crank it over & you can check for voltage drop at the ICM. Batteries can do some strange things & it's easy to check.

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2006 Chevy Monte Carlo SS

Well, I have ZERO volts at the pink/black wire. Checked with connector plugged into the ICM and unplugged. Zero volts either way. Hopefully this leads me somewhere...

_________________
Ryan

2003 Bonneville SSEi - The Black Mirror SOLD!
2002 Bonneville SE - The Mutt Complete 2004 SLE interior, drivetrain, and body harness swap, ECC swap, HUD swap, black GXP wheels, GXP headlights and tinted tails - SOLD
2003 BMW 540i M Sport, 2001 BMW X5 4.4i, 2010 GMC Acadia, 2017 Grand Design Imagine 3150BH
1982 Cutlass Supreme - The fun one

Did you have the positive meter lead on pink wire & the neg lead on the neg battery post?
If so then check the fuses under the dash on passenger side. Fuse #6?

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2006 Chevy Monte Carlo SS

Yup, exactly as I had it.

Checked fuse # 6... blown, which is wierd because I checked it when I got it home and it was blown also. I went to my parts car first thing and grabed some fuses and replaced it with a good one and now that one is blown also Obviously I have something going on there.

Another problem is that when I put the new fuse in and turned the ignition on, I could here alot of clicking by the engine. I checked it out and my injectors were going nuts Shut the key off, back on, they were fine.

Checked volts at pink/black wire, ignition on, 11.5 volts. Cranking, drops down to 8 volts, but the battery is slowly starting to get weak from all the times I have tried to start it...

Turned the key off, pulled fuse #6 and it was still good, but still no spark. Put the fuse back in and turned the key on then the injectors went crazy again. That can't be normal is it?

I'm going to swap ICMs again with the one that Haro sent me because I know that one fires on four cylinders at least.

_________________
Ryan

2003 Bonneville SSEi - The Black Mirror SOLD!
2002 Bonneville SE - The Mutt Complete 2004 SLE interior, drivetrain, and body harness swap, ECC swap, HUD swap, black GXP wheels, GXP headlights and tinted tails - SOLD
2003 BMW 540i M Sport, 2001 BMW X5 4.4i, 2010 GMC Acadia, 2017 Grand Design Imagine 3150BH
1982 Cutlass Supreme - The fun one

Ok, swapped out the ICM with the one that Andrew sent me that fired on all cylinders except 1-4. The car fired right up ( on four cylinders ) and ran for about three minutes before it died. While it was running, I checked the voltage at the pink/black wire, it was 13+ I still had the multimeter on when it died and that wire still had 12.5 volts on it when it died.

_________________
Ryan

2003 Bonneville SSEi - The Black Mirror SOLD!
2002 Bonneville SE - The Mutt Complete 2004 SLE interior, drivetrain, and body harness swap, ECC swap, HUD swap, black GXP wheels, GXP headlights and tinted tails - SOLD
2003 BMW 540i M Sport, 2001 BMW X5 4.4i, 2010 GMC Acadia, 2017 Grand Design Imagine 3150BH
1982 Cutlass Supreme - The fun one

I have some spare ICMs if you want to try another one. Can you read the numbers on the ICM Haro sent you?

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2006 Chevy Monte Carlo SS

I was referring to the PCM (Computer). But sounds like you are on to something else. Also, the schematic I posted a few days ago is for a 93 with all the ICM wire colors, etc. That one shows IGN voltage on the Pink/Black. And if I can throw one more thing in, I may be out in left field, but if the Crank sensor, ICM, or Cam sensor failed, shouldn't they give you a code? Maybe a code 18 or 42 (been there, done that)? Anyway, back to my nap.

_________________

1993 Red SSE - Bone-Stock except for High Perf. (LOL) Power Antenna-Original Owner. Pushing 140K - It's the love of my wife.
'05 Magnum Hemi R/T "Great White" - Classic VW Beetles

That's just it though... I have a total of four ICMs here already. The original, the parts car, the one from Haro, and a known good one from a I believe '97 Regal that Boosty drove home. I can swap out the ICM a couple times and one time one of them will not work, the next time it will work fine.

One other thing I actually overlooked in my FSM. It says to check for injector pulse using a test light. Well, I know you can do that using a push in style blinker bulb, exactly like we have in our front corner lights I took the bulb out of my corner light, unplugged one of the injectors and checked for a flashing light... nothing since it died. I didn't think to check it while it was running though If I understand it correctly from the FSM, the injector pulse is taken from the crank sensor somewhere down the line?


Anyone have any idea on the injectors going nuts?


ICM numbers from the back side are;
Haro -- 9789 4C07 4244
parts car -- 9209 3A04 1992
original -- 9789 3D23 4847
Boosty -- 7139 0B22 1552

_________________
Ryan

2003 Bonneville SSEi - The Black Mirror SOLD!
2002 Bonneville SE - The Mutt Complete 2004 SLE interior, drivetrain, and body harness swap, ECC swap, HUD swap, black GXP wheels, GXP headlights and tinted tails - SOLD
2003 BMW 540i M Sport, 2001 BMW X5 4.4i, 2010 GMC Acadia, 2017 Grand Design Imagine 3150BH
1982 Cutlass Supreme - The fun one

the injector pulse is from the cam position sensor. that is its sole purpose.

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92 Olds 98. L67, Gen 3 M62, 2.55 pulley, FWI, PLIM, 1.8 YTs.

The injectors are driven directly from the PCM (computer).
The cam and crank sensors feed the ICM. Of course, the ICM fires the coils, but also feeds signals to the PCM.
Your FSM has an explanation of all this, of course.
If you read the schematic either in your FSM or on my July 2 reply of this thread, you will see that the purple/white wire from the ICM on pin D, feeds the Fuel Control signal that goes into the PCM. I'm over simplifying it. But that is (just) one of the important signals.
Believe it or don't, that wire had a loose female connector where it plugs into the PCM. I was actually driving with the PCM laying on the floor so I could mess with the wires when it died. I had to come up with that paperclip deal to find it weeks later. One reason I have been nagging about checking that front most plug's pins. Back to my nap.

_________________

1993 Red SSE - Bone-Stock except for High Perf. (LOL) Power Antenna-Original Owner. Pushing 140K - It's the love of my wife.
'05 Magnum Hemi R/T "Great White" - Classic VW Beetles

the pcm relays the closing of the grounds for the injectors, based on the signal pulse from the cam sensor. and the icm is basically a "thru" point. but we're just splitting hairs here. I just dont think a loss of cam signal will prevent the engine from firing. the pcm will go to a default setting that is right 1 out of 6 times (or something like that, iirc what I read from the fsm). but, if this occurred,the pcm would also trip a DTC. he said he had no codes.

but for the spark and injector pulse to act funny at the same time, I'm starting to think about a bad ground, as both sensors tie to the same ground point.

I guess it wouldnt hurt to check the resistance of the cam and crank signal lines from the icm, to the pcm. the cam is a solid black wire. pin F on the icm, and pin BA12 on the pcm side. the crank signal is the light blue w/ a black stripe. pin C on the icm, and GD6 on the pcm side. (as shown on the schematic Redsled posted)

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92 Olds 98. L67, Gen 3 M62, 2.55 pulley, FWI, PLIM, 1.8 YTs.