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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:40 pm 
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So, I guess all I'm looking for here is some confirmation - I searched through the topic threads using "tank drop" and "fuel gauge" as word searches, as well as watched all 3 parts of Hans' fuel sending unit replacement for 00-05 (I know it's not the same! I watched it anyway, it was good!), and it would seem that my fuel sending unit has failed. Please, say it isn't so! The thread: "funky fuel gauge" by pmicaza, is the closest to my situation from what I read. My fuel gauge is stock at full. It doesn't sway, it doesn't wobble, it's just plain STUCK at full. Although I'm not a mechanic, I'm also no dummy...I know enough to use the trip odometer, and I plan to refill between 300 and 350 miles on the trip odometer. Without clicking back to read through the thread again, I don't think anybody directly answered this question: is there any way to test or make certain that it is in fact the fuel sending unit before doing a tank drop? Because...I will probably not get to do a tank drop until I go up to visit my parents, and that won't be 'til next spring. I would hate to plan with my Dad to do a tank drop and replace the sending unit, only to find out the sending unit is fine.

Also, since I do not know the location of the fuel pump, and if it happens to be inside the tank, and keeping in mind that my car has 208,000 miles on it, since I'm in there would it be a good idea to replace the fuel pump at the same time? Suggestions? Tests? Do I want my fuel gauge back that badly? Is it worth it? My Dad is not a mechanic either, but he's very "mechanical", not in a Darth Vader sort of way, he's just not afraid to tackle a job (i.e. heater core, brakes (drum/rotor), cooling system components, starters, etc.), and I'm not either, I'm mechanically inclined and have done the basic maintenance stuff likes plugs/wires, drum and rotor brakes, starter, etc. I think we could tackle the job, the question is, for a couple of first timers, would we be in for a nightmare? Anything else that we could check for that has easier access with the tank removed while we're under there (if we decide to go through with it)?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:06 pm 
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If you do, just get the Spectra unit that includes the pump. The sender has the pump mounted integrally. Be warned, any aftermarket sender will still be highly inaccurate. Even when there are still 5 gallons left, my gas gauge will be resting well below the E.

Make sure you have a small sheet of plywood ready to support the tank on the way down. And if you're in the rust belt, be ready to cut away the fuel filler and fuel tank vent hoses. New hose clamps are a must. Get the tank O-ring from the dealer, it's highly worth the $10 for not dropping the tank a second time.

If you want a "mechanic in a bottle" fix that just may work, go to Wal-Mart and buy two bottles of Gumout Regane High Mileage fuel system cleaner. Dump both in your tank on the next fillup. See if that won't dissolve crap on your fuel sender.

Or, if you want a digital analogue to a gas gauge, buy a ScanGauge II for $150. It tracks fuel consumption pretty well after it's calibrated. With my gas gauge being woefully inaccurate, the SGII is invaluable for deciding how far to go on a tank of gas. Cheaper and cleaner to install than a new fuel sender! ;-)

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:25 am 
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Oh boy....that sounds like it could possibly cost more than just the sending unit if things didn't go well. I looked at my local auto parts stores, and no one seems to have the high mileage Regane formula. But, the Regane complete fuel system cleaner is available, I wonder if that isn't as strong as the high mileage formula?? That or Techron seem to be my only option, I believe I'll dump two bottles in tomorrow (bought from Advance....with discount codes, thanks yet again!)...I've only went 60 miles on this tank so far, so there's probably about 17 gallons in there still. That would be SWEET if it worked, but I'm not counting on it or anything. Regarding Scan Guard II - yes, I'm sold on the idea, I just don't have the cash flow for it right now. I appreciate the advice.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:19 am 
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LeSabre in Buffalo wrote:
If you want a "mechanic in a bottle" fix that just may work, go to Wal-Mart and buy two bottles of Gumout Regane High Mileage fuel system cleaner. Dump both in your tank on the next fillup. See if that won't dissolve crap on your fuel sender.


Okay, so last night I dumped two bottles of the 2X concentrated Gumout Regane Complete fuel system cleaner, because I couldn't find the high mileage formula anywhere. I hope you didn't mean two bottles of the NON concentrated formula! I thought it was the wiper arms that always went bad on the fuel sender, and once they were bad, they were bad, and that was it. You're saying they could be stuck because of deposits on them, and "might" shake loose if the Gumout cleans them?? I'm not getting my hopes up, but I'm going to run two MORE bottles again on my next fill up. If that doesn't work, I'll just live with a broken gauge and eventually buy a Scan Gauge II. One thing about that though, is you STILL need to keep track of how much gas is in the tank...and I don't always have the $50 necessary to fill up WHEN it needs to be filled up. Ah well.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:18 pm 
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The regular stuff works fine, too. Plus, your injectors, intake valves, and cylinder tops will thank you.

The concentrated is the same stuff as the non-concentrated. One has more carrier for whatever reason.

It's supposed to be sulphur deposits on the fuel sender that keep it from working. It messes with the conductivity, so the gauge doesn't read accurately.

If that mega-dose doesn't work, the fuel sender itself is bad. Oh well, you're trying the cheap fix first.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:44 pm 
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Hm...well, 50 miles in since I put the Gumout in the tank, and I did see something "different" today....not anything significant, yet, but normally when I start it up, the gauge jumps automatically to full. Today, it hesitated for about 20 seconds before it did that. The needle only goes down to just a hair over the 3/4 mark, that's as low as I've ever seen it go, when I turn the car off....but....I only have about 108 miles on this tank, so right around the 3/4 mark would actually be correct for where THIS particular tank of gas is. Anyhow...nothing significant yet, but the needle did something different, and it can't be anymore broken than it is, so different is good I guess. We'll see.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 10:28 pm 
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Give it time. This is one chemical you want sitting in your tank for a week or so. If you can re-fuel at around half a tank and add another bottle of cleaner, I'd do that. The higher the level of fuel, the more the sender will get cleaned. It's suspended in the middle of the gas tank.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 10:37 pm 
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LeSabre in Buffalo wrote:
Give it time. This is one chemical you want sitting in your tank for a week or so. If you can re-fuel at around half a tank and add another bottle of cleaner, I'd do that. The higher the level of fuel, the more the sender will get cleaned. It's suspended in the middle of the gas tank.


Are you serious? There's like a layer of the Gumout hovering/floating around in the middle of the tank? Well that's interesting, I had no idea, I thought it just mixed with the gas. Well I'm definitely going to do that then. I thought that because of the floats, etc. you wanted to burn through the tank so the floats would have their full range of motion, hence the wiper arms would go through their full range of motion. Or...is that a totally ridiculous theory?!

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:01 pm 
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No, lol, the sender is suspended in the middle of the tank. You need to keep it submersed in fuel/cleaner, hence keeping the tank as full as possible while maintaining a proper mixture of fuel/cleaner. 1/2 tank of fuel per 1 bottle of cleaner.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:07 pm 
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dpcookson wrote:
No, lol, the sender is suspended in the middle of the tank. You need to keep it submersed in fuel/cleaner, hence keeping the tank as full as possible while maintaining a proper mixture of fuel/cleaner. 1/2 tank of fuel per 1 bottle of cleaner.


LOL is right. That makes a TON more sense!!!! Almost makes me want to delete that post. Hahaha!!!!!! :roll: Anyway...wow, I'm seriously laughing about that right now....yes, that makes perfect sense and I'll keep it at least half full. Thanks for clearing that up.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:10 pm 
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DPCookson said what I meant to say. Concur.

Ludichris wrote:
LeSabre in Buffalo wrote:
Give it time. This is one chemical you want sitting in your tank for a week or so. If you can re-fuel at around half a tank and add another bottle of cleaner, I'd do that. The higher the level of fuel, the more the sender will get cleaned. It's suspended in the middle of the gas tank.


Are you serious? There's like a layer of the Gumout hovering/floating around in the middle of the tank? Well that's interesting, I had no idea, I thought it just mixed with the gas. Well I'm definitely going to do that then. I thought that because of the floats, etc. you wanted to burn through the tank so the floats would have their full range of motion, hence the wiper arms would go through their full range of motion. Or...is that a totally ridiculous theory?!


Whups, wasn't clear enough. The sender is suspended in the middle of the tank. You want the fuel level above halfway to clean the entire sender. The level of the float doesn't matter. It's the level of gas in the tank that matters.

The fuel system cleaner mixes with the gas. There's no layer of it anywhere. That's why the directions say to add it first, then add the gas. The agitation of the falling gas mixes the cleaner thoroughly throughout the tank of gas.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:41 am 
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...yeah, I got that now. How silly of me. I guess I was so focused on the Gumout at that point, that what you said went straight past me like a fly-by in the middle of the night. Makes total sense though, so I'm glad you mentioned it. I was trying to cruise through my tank. Just today I hopped on the highway and put 60 miles on. Where did I go? 30 miles up the highway and back. I've still got 3/4's of a tank or so....I'll watch the trip odometer...thanks!

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:09 am 
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Sitting is the best recipe for a fix. Think of it like soaking a pan. The more time it sits with the water and soap, the easier it is to rinse the gunk off.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:55 pm 
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I think you were on it when you were describing the wiper fingers on the sender's fuel level sensor being worn out. It's a common problem with these cars. I did the inexpensive fix on my wife's GP this summer, buying the GM fuel sender harness part for ~$35, pulling the sending unit out of the tank, swapping the sensor part, and reinstalling. Worked like a charm. Instructions here:

http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=456
and here:
http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3463

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:10 pm 
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Bugsi wrote:
I think you were on it when you were describing the wiper fingers on the sender's fuel level sensor being worn out. It's a common problem with these cars. I did the inexpensive fix on my wife's GP this summer, buying the GM fuel sender harness part for ~$35, pulling the sending unit out of the tank, swapping the sensor part, and reinstalling. Worked like a charm. Instructions here:

http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=456
and here:
http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3463


...if only it were that easy. Mine's a 97. I don't have the access panel or I'd be all over it. :sad:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:27 pm 
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Remind me: Is there trunk access, or does one have to drop the tank?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:17 pm 
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Drop the tank. The fuel sending unit on the 92-99's is a mother-humper to get at.

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