Well I went to vacume the faithful bonnie out today, and what do I find... well water... Not happy here..

Here are the pics..


after seat and console removal...



I found the insulation soaked with water...



Found the floor pan wet and the paint starting to bubble



Some evidence that this has been happening for a while via the rusty bolt...



Here we see where the inside of the body has been getting wet... I caould follow a trail up to the corner of the door seal and a nice gap The same goes for the front drivers door as well...



I reworked all of the door seals to eliminate the gap at the top of the doors... You can see the amount of shrink the rubber has had over the years...




This is everything as it sits out of the car... I went to the front drivers side to check the carpet there and found more wetness .... At this point I was soooo pised I put all that crap back in the car with the exception of the rear insulation... Looks like I will be buying new carpet, new door seals, and while I'm at it headliner material... Only good part is I caught it before there was any real rust... Looks like in a month I'll have my hand full :?

Now, does any company make the door seals or is that an Item I have to get from GM? And while I'm at it and the car will be apart I have thought about adding a Pioneer or something or other 4 channel amp just to give my stock system a little boost... Any thoughts on that? I also figgure it would be easiest to do the headliner while everything is out of the car as well.. Oh well its just been one of those days.. *dang*

Don, JC Whitney has all their trim profiles shown on their website. They usually stock the common stuff, and H-body trim should fall into that category.

Bottom pic......what's that mark on the driveway by the seat?

Hmmmm... I'll have to look at JC whiteny when I have some more time...

Mark... What is this mark you speak of? I see no mark... You must be seeing things Bill... How many bottles have you had?

Hmmmm... I'll have to look at JC whiteny when I have some more time...

Mark... What is this mark you speak of? I see no mark... You must be seeing things Bill... How many bottles have you had?

I haven't fixed anything as of yet... I really don't have the time to rip out everything like I want to.... That will happen later tho...

I was looking at the JCWhitney site and the closest I could come was through 1991 for the weather strip seals..

I haven't totally solved the problem, but I have found a tempoary fix... I merely removed and reinstalled the weather strip seals leaving the gap at the bottom of the door as opposed to the top leaving less chance of water getting in.. My floor pans are still good, the paint started to bubble a bit... I want to sand and reprimb( rust inhibiting ) and repaint the floor pans... I also want to replace the carpet( Haven't had time to dig into this one yet )...

Also I have looked up GM part numbers, and founf the color I need, It says cut to fit and the color is graphite... But it seems that GMPD does not recognize the part number...

Now the question is, does JC whitney make the same rubber moulding/weatherstrip that GM used on the 92-99 bonnevilles? And do any autoparts stores sell the stuff?

When I get all this figured out I will post more on the progress... But it may all be slow going for the next month...

OK, time for an update... The things all 92-99 bonnie owners need to know about water leaks...

I kept finding my carpet wet after a good violent Florida rain storm.. I thought I had it fixed the first time around... Well was I wrong or what....LMAO

Here is what I have found, and what I have done to try and correct for the problems...


I totally went through the interior again... The car has sat for the last month or so.. I have been keeping an eye on the leaks after each rain storm... Here are a few pics I took when we had a full week of rain... The water in the pic is from less than a days rain...


Drivers side rear floor pan



Drivers side at the Parking brake cable



Passenger side rear floor pan, notice the Air Bag Module....



I don't know if you can tell, but the wires for the Air Bag Module are sitting in water..



Passenger side front floor pan..


This is the Vid of me finding the leaks...
http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=Find ... leaks_0001

A few of you have seen it...



At first I thought the leaks may have had something to do with the Medium hardness glue/sealer used at the factory... I later found that that sealer was there for no appearant reason other than to look crappy...lol... Pics Below..




Another Possibility I had thought of as a potential leak... This is the Fresh air intake for the HAVC system... Notice the foam seal around it...




In my quest to find the leak on the drivers side of the car I took off the Drivers side fender so I could get a better view of the the seals / joints....




I found this section of the frame to be filled with debris... The area where the water is supposed to drain couldn't drain correctly.... But this was not the cause of the leak on the drivers side into the interior...




As I kept searching and searching for the leak on the drives side, I happened across this seem that I had paid no attention too earlier....( smacked myself on the head )... I checked if that seem was on the outside of the body or the inside... It was the point at the corner as far as you could go leading to the inside of the car... I sealed it with clear RTV... That leak was corrected...




But I still had the leak in the center of the firewall...

You can barely make out the trickle of water...This brought me back to the intake for the HVAC.... Notice the black foam seal all around the intake.... I cleand the area all around the intake with an old tooth brush to remove any debris, then I cleand the area with rubbing alcohol.... Then sealed with silicone black... Once it dried I went to testing again... The leak on the drivers side was still history.... But the leak at the center of the firewall still remained...

At this point Admin Man Don was thinking WTF is happening here??? So I started revisiting the funky foam seal you see at the bottom of the pic above... a t the time I was thinking this can't be the problem.... So just for the heck of it, I went and got another tube of silicone black and went to town all over that seal from one side to the other to make sure I waterproofed that foam seal.... This is the end result, it looks worse in the pics than it really is....





I ended up testing it for a while after the silicone black set up pretty good... No water came in at all... I was supprised....

These leaks have given me nothing but headaches.... I'm glad I finally got them tho... Now the only place that leaks a little is the door seals... I have to pull the headliner again... That Permatex glue sucked rocks.... Gonna fix it with the 3M90... Almost $15 a can...LMAO... Once I get the headliner back in I'm going to use clear RTV on the door seal all the way around... These leaks are going to be dione once and for all... ;)

This I think will be the third time in totall that the car has been taken apart... I'm a pro at it now... I can gut the interior in a matter of minutes....LOL

The leaks that I thought were in the back were all in the front, and running back to the rear floor pans.... My passenger side was getting water from the front door seal, and the firewall in the center... Kind of a chance thing that the water would run off on to the passenger side....

The drivers side was a combination of the firewall seam seal, and the point where all the sheet metal comes together, the water at this point followed the channel the Parking Brake cable sat in...

Once I get everything how I want it( Dry ) I will go through and use Clear RTV on the perimeter of all the door seals.... I'm going to cure these leaks once and for all... ;)

The leak thing really pissed me off yesterday.... I'm still going to fight with it.... LOL

But *dang*, between taking care of 1 acre, working all nite long( trying to train sorry people that aren't worth.... well you know ) Time runs short... LMAO

I heard the squeeler doohickey on the 91's pads yesterday... Got pretty bad too and drove me insane.... Had to stop off at the auto parts store on the way home and get some synthetic brake lube and brake cleaner... Was testing for leaks as I did the brakes on the 91.... well water was still getting in... But the rains( pretty H*** bent last nite ) left no trace of water at the center of the firewall... But the leak on the left side is still there... Not as bad as it was, so I must have at least sealed someting...... I'd be better off if I coated every surface with epoxy or something...LMAO... I Too hope that I will beat the leaks... I have to drive this car 1000 miles up to WV and 1000 miles back to florida in August....

I had to fix a dent in the oil pan, got a chance to look around under there... The rods and crank were so clean I was amazed at what oil changes do to keep an engine clean and tight... Had the normal endplay( rods ) ... But no play at all for the rod bearings... Oil sump screen was riding the bottom of the pan from the dent... There is a circular mark on the inside of my pan... Oil pressure stays higher now... I guess this car has its good points... But in the future it may just harbor some goldfish...

Here's the rears. This is how I found mine... an obvious problem.





The fronts are a little easier to inspect. Remove the visors and the A pillars and perhaps thte sunroof gasket and the headliner can be pulled down far enough.

well so far I have proven the drivers side leak fixed, thats the leak at the Parking brake corner... No more water there no matter the amount of rain...

The HVAC is another story... And if what I did the other day fixes it, I'm going to kick myself in the A$$ for it being soooooooooo simple.... We'll see what happens... On a side note tho, it rained good for a bit, and I found no water in the car.... Time for the hose test... But a good sign I hope eityher way...

Oh and I have no sunroof, so I think I'd have to fab up a flap to feed the fishes........ Would be neat to see a lifesize Bonneville fishtank tho...LOL

Well Don, I hope that I have all of the leaks in my '95 under control. Just to keep all this information in one place, I'll list where my leaks were and how I stopped them. I think I had a couple that you have yet to be tortured with.

Trunk leaks: broken plastic tail light mounting studs, all six! both sides - gasket not tight against metal. Fix: Reattached studs to lens assembly with Duro plastic weld epoxy, cleaned gasket and added a bead of 3M strip calk to Driver's side gasket. Tightened to a reasonable torque.



Lens leak: unique to my car, I hope. Having broken all the mounting studs, the lenses had been re-attached by drilling through the corners of each lens and driving 2-1/2" #10 sheet metal screws through the metal. Fix: Sealed the lens holes with clear epoxy and filled the body holes with strip calk.



Door seals: shrinking door seals allowed leak into rr passenger floorpan. Fix: Removed and re-set all door seals leaving gap at center bottom. Filled gap with piece cut from spare strip from junkyard. Where rubber seal for pinch weld had gapped open, (in tight curves) added 3M strip calk to outside edge of pinch weld. Removed rain gutters, scraped off old seals and re-sealed with 3M strip calk. Also used strip calk for screw holes.



Headliner: water entered at leaking windshield top left, wetted headliner, dripped into A pillar trim, down against door seal and into brake cable well and under driver's carpet. Fix: had used windshield professionally installed ($140 - mine was cracked across the bottom anyway.)



Cowl: water entered around polyethylene intake air duct under passenger wiper drive post where foam seal had shrunk. Water travelled behind the lamp module and ran (in my case) under the driver's carpet. Fix: Remove windshield wipers and plastic cowl, formed strip calk around duct and shaped with fingers to seal between plastic and metal. Also, sealed under plastic cover and around wiper post and mounting bolts with butyl rubber ribbon seal (for glass - had run out of strip calk or would have used it there too!) Could not encourage a leak through the thick foam seal on the firewall, so I left that one alone.



Under rear seat: water entered through the ventilation grille and then through a 2"x3" hole in the interior metal sheet where a factory stick-on seal had come undone. Fix: peeled back the factory seal to expose the hole, cleaned off the dust and used strip calk to re-seal the original sealing material.



Obviously, the seats, console, carpet, pads, threshold trim, trunk pad, mat, and felt walls all came out to dry out the wet stuff and provide access. When re-sealing, cleaned surfaces and then degreased with rubbing alcohol before applying new sealant. Box of strip calk was $14. Whole deal took about 8 days.

OMG .....LOL


Been there done that 5 years ago.... Trunk would fill with water during a hard rain... I looked everywhere than I looked to the tail lamps... Got a little unhappy at the time and snapped of the rest of the plastic studs in anger...LMAO.... replaced it with a junk yard unit, sealed the rest with some silicone black, never had another issue there... LOL... Later I just replaced the lamps all together with a set of SSE tails...



Yes Bill you are right, I have never had that problem.... Thats the first I have ever heard or seen of that one... Your car just had to be diffrent...lol




At current I have this problem at all 4 doors... Not a bad fix so it will be the last thing I take care of...
Where can I get some of this 3M strip calk?




That problem I have not had... Lucky there... For me it was just the metal seem not sealed properly from the factory...




I also thought thats where my problem was... I sealed everything under there... still had the leak... After some more testing, I found that the bearing/sleeve for the passenger side window wiper was letting water drip into the HVAC intake, also the holes for the screws were doing the same... I could tun water all day long and keep the channel flooded out and no water would enter the car... as soon as I ran water down the windshield, water would slowly show up on the inside of the car... There is a rubber gasket for that sleev/bearing on the passenger side that was not sealing that well... I removed the bolts and applied a bit of clear RTV to the gasket... Also did the same for that plastic cover and used a little RTV and the screws to seal the holes... After a couple of rains I have seen no more water... I want to do a little more testing tho, I am almost ready to put the car back together... I miss my L36




I have a hole in the front passenger side foot well... Its supposed to have the rubber sealant on it, but its out of place... I will correct that problem while I am at it... All in all its moving along...


Side note Mr. Buttermore... I had to use Permatex Adhesive as the local places here had none for some time... Wouldn't you know the headliner detached with the high heat and started to come down... I went through H*** removing the fabric and trying to get it right... The 3M90 is some serious glue tho... If I ever decide to make it look all original( its a little on the not so great side, you'd have to look at it to know tho, I'll be sure to grabb another headliner thats sagging, clean it up and spray the life out of it with 3M90..... Used 2 cans at $15 each LMAO... Got it all back in the car tho... Looking better... I'm going to be going home in august, so I want the Bonnie all back to the norm for the 1000 mile trip up and back...lol

I got the 3M strip calk at O'Reilly auto parts here in Ames for 13.99 + tax



Any store that handles 3M should be able to order it for you. It works very well, but gets too sticky to handle much above 85F. Keep it in the AC or the fridge to use it on really hot days. Best of all, it is removable by scraping and then using a petroleum solvent. Not easy, but can be done. I think it is best where it is pinched between parts with some sort of fastener, like on the rain gutter moldings.

Yeah, I sealed that "roof over the intake duct" by removing the screws, putting sealant in the holes and replacing them. The plastic cover got a strip of new sealant under it and the wiper post got a ring too.



That's a bummer on the headliner - if you find you need supplies, I know a guy ...;)

I had the same trouble on my '92 using an adhesive made especially for attaching headliners. But my problem, I think, was that I didn't spray a second coat on the board and I have a couple of loose places over the back window. Makes me wonder if I couldn't just carefully pull it back and......

Yes Bill B, thats exactly what I'm talking about... Glad to see I'm not the only one with this issue... I need to do more leak testing, but after working all nite, and being up all day.... Its too hot here and I'm just too tired...

Tomorrow will be another day 8)

well its apperant that the fish still want my car....

I am so depressed over this car....

But I have cured 3 of the 4 leaks I have found.... The front passenger side is dry, the rear passenger side is dry, the rear drivers side is dry for now.......

I am still finding water at the Parking brake area on the floor pan... Looks like its still coming from the corner... I am so disgusted and tired right now( been a very long day ) I won't even touch it.... I tossed a couple of towels under the insulation to soak up some moisture... Tomorrow I will most likely remove the Parking brake assembly, and the hood release latch along with some of that foam sound deadning material to get a better look at where the leak is.... Grrrrrrr...

Well on the bright side I guess I got something right, the HVAC is nice and dry... No more leaks...

Got my blower today, I will go to the Junk yard tomorrow if the weather is ok and see if I can snag a wire... Stealership wanted $80, Me and the parts guy both almost S*** our pants... He was like " yeah!!! Hmmm $80 for a wire "

I did get my dipstick ordered tho... Accidentally broke the yellow plastic thingy...

Where oh where is this leak at.... I'm going nuts

Well I just came from the Junk Yard due to me blower motor wire search, I did find a good one...

I noticed on a 95 SE that was taken apart as in no hood or drivers side quarter pannel, there is this seem where the all the pieces of metal meet( meets at the inside corner ) and there was a small little opening with no seem sealer.... Thats right it was as open as day... I was supprised to find this... On mine it looked like it was sealed... Must be years of dirt... I am almost positive that this is where the leak has to be.... I looked at a 94 and found the same thing, there was no sealer in that little area... Its about 1cm wide by about 1mm high... And the seem is where the water runs out of the fire wall on the drivers side...... That would explain why I get the leak during a heavy rain storm... I'll have to look into it more today... ;)

Dust off my own thread herer...

Update....

I found the leak on the drivers side of the car... It was at a seem in the wheel well, where all the joints come together... The medium grade sealer had hardened and started to pull away from the body.... I had to remove the Drivers quarter pannel to find these leaks... I removed the bad sealer, cleaned the area, and sealed with JB Weld... After several heavy rains before I left FL, the car stayed bone dry.... Not a single drop... Finally a dry bonnie ;)

As it seems that more people are having these leaks I am going to update again today...

After the last Hurricane I had water on the drivers side of the car again... The drivers side rear was filled with 1" of water... So as far as I can find 3 of the 4 leaks I found are still cured... But the drivers side is still being pesky.... More explanation on that once I get the pics up....

OK here it goes again...

3 of 4 leaks are corrected, and after Willma there were no leaks at the passenger side door seals( front and rear ), There were no leaks at the center HVAC intake under the window wiper arm seal... But a drivers side leak remained... I found the rear passenger floor pan with 1" of water coming up through the carpet... It was the worst it has ever been... So I tore it all apart again( Yes Boosty the fish are alive and well )...


Got it apart, the insulation was so wet I swear I got a good gallon out of it with towels..



Drivers side rear floor pan...



Ther area where I keep finding a leak at the corner of the firewall near the parking brake..

The parking brake channel with water... Later I'll sow you where some of that water is coming from...




Water under the power seat/SRS Module wires... The water actually runs from front to back, if you have water in the rear of the car you can almost bet that it has something to do with the front of the car... The water usually runs by the frame member to the rear...




Notice the support members.. Interior gutted...





Passenger front floor pan dry and free of leaks, HVAC also free of leaks.... Its dry over here on this side...SRS Module also dry, rear passenger floor pan dry...




Part of the drivers side door seal problem... Notice how all of the sections of the unibody come together, not a great sealing point...




These do not help either.... They are the wire loom retainers... I have had these leak before, and they have yet to stop... I RTV'd the living S*** out of them and that pesky door seal...



The water usually runs down these wire brackets, sometimes the water goes out and away from the brackets and runs through the frame members on to the back or rear floor pan, or the water will run down the channel and to the rear...



Here if you look on the back side of the wire loom you'll see a small channel on the side of that body that looks like it has dirt in it, this channel was was filled with water, it may not have been much but in the corse of a violent never ending rain storm its enough to load the car with water


On the outside


This is one area I noticed that had some issues with seam sealer... I sealed it with JB weld... I went back over it with Some RTV, The RTV is far more flexible, and will give with body flex...



While doing that I found this area at a corner right where the water drains off the car, Looks like the seem is sealed from the inside and the sealer has cracked up... I sealed that with RTV as well...




Another area that was sealed..... It had no seem sealer...



Here I found a small area that had fractured seam sealer, I sealed it all the way around just to make sure...


And a parting shot...

Did more sealing and testing today...

CC, this is the area where the water was running...




A closer look





The area I never sealed, and where I was thinking the leak was... Yesterday I actually started from the bottom and worked my way up.... as soon as I got to this point, it was water falls... Didn't even take a minute...




What it all looked like after silicone sealer adhesive...





as I was doing all of this and changed the position of the hose, The leak at the parking brake went away... No matter what I did I could not get it to leak( Thank God ).... But another Leak appeared... It was as far left of the parking brake as you could get... After I stopped to think about it, and looked at the possibilities for water entrance from the outside of the car I noticed these 2 little holes.... :duh: :help:

Another Update....A good one at that.... *dang* car.... It raind pretty good for a while... So I went and did more testing..

I found that I still had the drivers side parking brake leak, not as bad as it was, but still leaking..

Here is the Video for it...

as you are looking at the vid you'll see the stud sticking out, that is the lowest nut that holds the parking brake in place, you will also see the Accelerator cable going through the firewall, hope that will give you an idea of the angle... I was on my back under the dash with a flashlight trying to find that leak... Strange place for it too... The water is whicking right through the Foam sealer that is covered with medium grade body sealer... This is the last and final leak thats left... Fixing it may turn into a challange..

http://media.putfile.com/Movie_00014431

I still have a leak... I think I'll just call it a Failure and quit for now... I'll just let the car sit untill I feel like dealing with it again... I think the hood hinges( Hood Too ) and the windshield wiper cowling have to go so that I can get to the point where the seems come together.... From what I can find the Foam sealer( Looks like expanding foam sealer, rubberized ) is whicking the water to the inside of the car... SO frusterated with it that I just give up...

BTW, all of the other leaks are totally corrected... At least something good came of it...

Oh and GM, if you are reading this.... The quality of your cars has gone down a lot over the last 12 or 13 years...

Already checked, and thats not where its entering the car ;)

Another Update... Again...LOL


After moving the hood hinge out of the way, I was able to check the sealer under the hinge... I found it to be all cracked up... After removing chunks of the old sealer I found that there was a hole under it...



I next found that it was way too easy to insert the pic into the firewall... Also not good...



Another angle




The Black RTV sealer I used simply because its very flexible... Looks worse than it really is... After much more testing that I ever had to do before to get it to leak, I found no traces of water at the top portion of the firewall inside tha car where the Parking brake attaches( Its a Royal PITA to remove )... Before I seald that point, I could get it to leak in a matter of a few minutes... I spent a couple of hours with the water hose testing in every way I could think of and no leaks.... Almost jumped for joy( Still not believing it yet ... LMAO )



after regaining some trust that it most likely wouldn't leak again, I went ahead and started the reassembly process.... What fun... I'm a pro at this now....




Got the back seat back in...



Getting the shifter back in...



Got the console back in.... I also managed to get the driver seat in before it got dark.... I went out this morning and installed the passenger seat... Nice to Drive 205 Hp as oppose to 120...lol

I'm hopeful that this is the cure all for me... That open seam made a lot of sense for the leak.... Whish I would have checked it sooner, would have saved me a lot of headaches...LMAO


When I dissassembled, I removed the drivers head lamp, marker lamp, fender, gutted the interior, removed the Parking Brake and the Hood latch to get the wires out of the way, pulled the firewall insulation to be able to gage the leaks or where they were coming from... Ebded up removing the winshield wipers and wiper cowl to do some more sealing... Later ended up pulling the hood hinge to discover a missed seam... Yeaterday I did everything in reverse order.... Had to go buy a set of ratchet wrenches before I was ready to park the car in the river...The ratchet wrenches come in O SO Handy... I reccomend that everyone have a set in the toolbox....

Hope that the fishtank syndrome is cured...

People think I'm nuts, but Matt proved it.