Hello!

Sorry first about two things: my english is very bad and i dont have bonneville.


I have 1990 buick lesabre with 3800 engine.

I got recommendation for this forum.


Now the problem:

About three weeks ago SES started to light about 2-4 times per one fuel tank drives.

Week after that car stalled on warm engine (warm engine shut off and then 5-30min restart and drive) about 2-4 times per fuel tank too.

It allways started very well after it shutted of. Shut off was like you shut off it in ignition key.


It gived 42 code electronic spark system


Last week it was gettin worse. Stalled allways when engine was warm and you go shop etc and left there. 1-5 miles drive and shut down. If car was park about 2hours or more, no problems. You can drive no matter 300miles no problem if you dont shut off it.


I read internet and get advise to change crankshaft position sensor.

I replaced it yesterday. Then i drived engine warm and turned it off about 5 minutes. Then i started and go drive. About one mile drive it stumbles and shut off. Not like before. It was like when gas tank is empty.

Then it starts after that but not so good than before. About 2seconds starting and then.


It did that again when i continue driving. Now i pressed firmly gas and engine didint shut off but idle was horrible and weak so i turned it off myself. Then it started again with 2seconds "delay".


It gives no fault codes anymore ;(


I live in Finland and i dont have possible to get parts like bread.


What is now wrong? Sensor replacement get position worser.


When car idles it wont shut off after warm engine restart.

Possibilities are that the wiring to the crank sensor has shorted or the PCM is going bad.

I would first inspect the wiring leading to the sensor. Pull it out of the loom and look for bare wires or broken wire insulation. Then, I would probe pins for continuity to ground, and eachother. I think only one should have continuity to ground, and very high resistance if any continuity to eachother. I would then turn the key to on and probe to see if it's getting the 5v reference voltage.

I'm trying to remember if a bad cam sensor or ignition control module will set a code 42.

_________________

WHITE WHINE - 1992 SSE Supercharged 236.26 ci (.040 Over) 15.090 at 90.2 MPH on old engine w/ slipping trans & melted O2 sensor - Gen 3 M62 and matching TB, Gen 2 Pully, Zillamotorsports Ported LIM, YT 1.72 Roller Rockers, SII FPR & Injectors, Hypertech Thermomaster chip w/ 160 Thermo, TransGo Shift Kit, Infinity/Pioneer Speakers & a 10" Alpine Type R Sub, all the watts, 140 amp Alternator, Ricepipe CAI w/ heatshield, Pilot Angel Eye Foglights, Clear Corners, '02 17" Chrome Bent 5's, Magnaflow F-Body Muffler and Hi-flo Cat, Ceramic Coated Ported Exhaust Manifolds, Fan Override, Monroe Reflex struts, red calipers
2009 G8 GT - Sport Red Metallic, loaded, SOLO Axlebacks, Rotofab Intake, Tuned, autodim mirror, removed intake manifold cover, HSV GTS triple gauge pod, two tone red-hot shifter and HSV SuperSport steering wheel, GXP rear sway bar and diffuser, 3.45 diff and various Camaro suspension bits, LED Taillights

Why it wont give fault code anymore?

I check that!

I dont find pcm on rockauto. Is it same than ECM?

This might help also.

http://www.justanswer.com/pontiac/5tigc ... 12-42.html

ECM and PCM are the same thing.

How many times has it run since you changed the sensor? Some codes take a certain number of key cycles to turn the light on.

_________________

WHITE WHINE - 1992 SSE Supercharged 236.26 ci (.040 Over) 15.090 at 90.2 MPH on old engine w/ slipping trans & melted O2 sensor - Gen 3 M62 and matching TB, Gen 2 Pully, Zillamotorsports Ported LIM, YT 1.72 Roller Rockers, SII FPR & Injectors, Hypertech Thermomaster chip w/ 160 Thermo, TransGo Shift Kit, Infinity/Pioneer Speakers & a 10" Alpine Type R Sub, all the watts, 140 amp Alternator, Ricepipe CAI w/ heatshield, Pilot Angel Eye Foglights, Clear Corners, '02 17" Chrome Bent 5's, Magnaflow F-Body Muffler and Hi-flo Cat, Ceramic Coated Ported Exhaust Manifolds, Fan Override, Monroe Reflex struts, red calipers
2009 G8 GT - Sport Red Metallic, loaded, SOLO Axlebacks, Rotofab Intake, Tuned, autodim mirror, removed intake manifold cover, HSV GTS triple gauge pod, two tone red-hot shifter and HSV SuperSport steering wheel, GXP rear sway bar and diffuser, 3.45 diff and various Camaro suspension bits, LED Taillights

About three times and today twice.

Before when it stalled it gived instantly fault code. Now it was agressive and 12 12 12 12 12 12 only.


When i replaced sensor i taked battery off and reset codes.

And when it started to stumple and little bit after it stalled SES light was on but not after startup. But same was before sensor replacing. It didnt allways go on stall after startup but it was allways in faul codes.

I measure ecm too thanks. I have bad memories about ohm testings. Last summer i and electric man measured my ex camrys coils and it gived different ohm than coil which is good. Same on three different new coils. All those were fine but ohms didnt.

Hope that wont do same trick.

Which ignition coil & module do you have?
Top or bottom:


I don't trust the one on the bottom. Neither did GM, the one on the top is a bolt-on swap and parts are more available, the swap needs the bracket though which may be junkyard only unless you can make one yourself.

It is more likely that the ICM went bad instead of the ECM. The Cam sensor or magnet are also possible. But check the wiring first.

_________________
Boost addict


The Fleet:
'93 SSEi - Twincharged + manual Build thread
'97 Camaro - Top swap
'05 STS - V8, AWD, her DD
'92 Trofeo - Fair weather DD
'99 Montana - top swap 3800
'04 Sierra 2500HD - LLY Duramax

Current project:
Something cool, trust me.

Upcoming projects:
'92 Bonneville SSE
'87 LeSabre T-type
'67 LeSabre

Gone to greener pastures:
'84 Sierra Classic - Twin turbo 3800
'97 LeSabre - Top swap

RIP:
'86 LeSabre - pictures
'93 SE - L67

Its bottom style, one big coil.


Does old icm fit on those another coils? Magnavox or what was it.

Or does coil pack need bracket for grounding or is it same which surface they are? If i do change.


Ps. Haynes manual says that "adjust crankshaft position sensor to local gm dealer" what adjust that means? It has not anything to adjust.

The crank sensor is pretty sensitive to how it is adjusted. Maybe pre 92 isn't adjustable? The slotted rings that pass between the nubs on the sensor will quickly destroy the sensor if they make contact with it. When I replaced mine, I used a random piece of scrap to space it out.

To swap the ignition type, you need the bracket, ICM, and coils.

_________________

WHITE WHINE - 1992 SSE Supercharged 236.26 ci (.040 Over) 15.090 at 90.2 MPH on old engine w/ slipping trans & melted O2 sensor - Gen 3 M62 and matching TB, Gen 2 Pully, Zillamotorsports Ported LIM, YT 1.72 Roller Rockers, SII FPR & Injectors, Hypertech Thermomaster chip w/ 160 Thermo, TransGo Shift Kit, Infinity/Pioneer Speakers & a 10" Alpine Type R Sub, all the watts, 140 amp Alternator, Ricepipe CAI w/ heatshield, Pilot Angel Eye Foglights, Clear Corners, '02 17" Chrome Bent 5's, Magnaflow F-Body Muffler and Hi-flo Cat, Ceramic Coated Ported Exhaust Manifolds, Fan Override, Monroe Reflex struts, red calipers
2009 G8 GT - Sport Red Metallic, loaded, SOLO Axlebacks, Rotofab Intake, Tuned, autodim mirror, removed intake manifold cover, HSV GTS triple gauge pod, two tone red-hot shifter and HSV SuperSport steering wheel, GXP rear sway bar and diffuser, 3.45 diff and various Camaro suspension bits, LED Taillights

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1019540,parttype,7172,a,www.google.fi%2BSearch%2Bfor%2B1990%2BBUICK

All those are from single coil system?


I found pretty good measure instructions for icm and crank sensor. I measured just that ground and power goes like it should be on ignition ON position.

Another measures was clockwise rotate harmonic bal and the read gauge if sensor gives pulse.


I taked out crank sensor connector and measured ohm there. One gived different reading than rest. *dang* i cant remember anymore what that reading was.


http://www.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=40451&imageurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rockauto.com%2Finfo%2FSMP%2FPCB1_PRIMARY.jpg thats my car sensor brackret. Bolt just secures that sensor wont drop off.


With connector off it surpisely wont cranked at all.

Those are single coil ICMs.

The bolt should allow you to adjust the position of the sensor if you loosen it.

_________________

WHITE WHINE - 1992 SSE Supercharged 236.26 ci (.040 Over) 15.090 at 90.2 MPH on old engine w/ slipping trans & melted O2 sensor - Gen 3 M62 and matching TB, Gen 2 Pully, Zillamotorsports Ported LIM, YT 1.72 Roller Rockers, SII FPR & Injectors, Hypertech Thermomaster chip w/ 160 Thermo, TransGo Shift Kit, Infinity/Pioneer Speakers & a 10" Alpine Type R Sub, all the watts, 140 amp Alternator, Ricepipe CAI w/ heatshield, Pilot Angel Eye Foglights, Clear Corners, '02 17" Chrome Bent 5's, Magnaflow F-Body Muffler and Hi-flo Cat, Ceramic Coated Ported Exhaust Manifolds, Fan Override, Monroe Reflex struts, red calipers
2009 G8 GT - Sport Red Metallic, loaded, SOLO Axlebacks, Rotofab Intake, Tuned, autodim mirror, removed intake manifold cover, HSV GTS triple gauge pod, two tone red-hot shifter and HSV SuperSport steering wheel, GXP rear sway bar and diffuser, 3.45 diff and various Camaro suspension bits, LED Taillights

Umm hard to explain but sensor is this


That "corner" what isnt visible on picture stops on that bolt.


If you take bolt off you can plug out sensor without removing harmonic balancer.

But if im wrong im glad to hear adjust


Multiple coil system seems then poor for me.

I have never read that you can take the sensor out without taking the balancer off. Interesting. If you can, when slipping it back in, you need to make sure it won't contact the balancer rings when the engine is running. If it's easy, can you take it back out and check for scraping on the sensor?

_________________

WHITE WHINE - 1992 SSE Supercharged 236.26 ci (.040 Over) 15.090 at 90.2 MPH on old engine w/ slipping trans & melted O2 sensor - Gen 3 M62 and matching TB, Gen 2 Pully, Zillamotorsports Ported LIM, YT 1.72 Roller Rockers, SII FPR & Injectors, Hypertech Thermomaster chip w/ 160 Thermo, TransGo Shift Kit, Infinity/Pioneer Speakers & a 10" Alpine Type R Sub, all the watts, 140 amp Alternator, Ricepipe CAI w/ heatshield, Pilot Angel Eye Foglights, Clear Corners, '02 17" Chrome Bent 5's, Magnaflow F-Body Muffler and Hi-flo Cat, Ceramic Coated Ported Exhaust Manifolds, Fan Override, Monroe Reflex struts, red calipers
2009 G8 GT - Sport Red Metallic, loaded, SOLO Axlebacks, Rotofab Intake, Tuned, autodim mirror, removed intake manifold cover, HSV GTS triple gauge pod, two tone red-hot shifter and HSV SuperSport steering wheel, GXP rear sway bar and diffuser, 3.45 diff and various Camaro suspension bits, LED Taillights

Bracket is modeled like it cant but wrong in it.

So you cant turn it too close.


I bet that you can take sensor of without removing balancer.


There is good room to open that 8mm bolt down to ground. I dont figure out nothing else reason for that.

The older cars because it was adjustable you could service the sensor without removing the HB, that's how my '86 was. Not sure if the '90 can.

Keep the wedge in while you tighten the holder down on the crank sensor so it maintains it's alignment to the balancer rings.

_________________
Boost addict


The Fleet:
'93 SSEi - Twincharged + manual Build thread
'97 Camaro - Top swap
'05 STS - V8, AWD, her DD
'92 Trofeo - Fair weather DD
'99 Montana - top swap 3800
'04 Sierra 2500HD - LLY Duramax

Current project:
Something cool, trust me.

Upcoming projects:
'92 Bonneville SSE
'87 LeSabre T-type
'67 LeSabre

Gone to greener pastures:
'84 Sierra Classic - Twin turbo 3800
'97 LeSabre - Top swap

RIP:
'86 LeSabre - pictures
'93 SE - L67

Bad english so i dont understand all but i think that you cannont adjust it. If wedge is not harmonic balancer side (wedge leans toward bolt) then sensor wont stay bracket at all.


What is wrong because alternator warning light wont work? Bulb is okay.

I hear that quad mobule or what it was will check oil, temp and alt bulbs and if is problem it may cause something errors.



If i measure ICM and it seems to be okay but getting worse when its warm.... what then?

And idle misfire is pretty bad. zap...zapzap....zap...zap about 2seconds and two misses and fast pause and one miss and two...etc


If i order new icm or even coil in same, does i have o look old one numbers because rockauto has many different numbers of icm?

Horribly today.

Stalled about 4 times in a row. Even with staringly cold engine. 42 code was back again.



I removed coilpack and checked icm number. There were crack on icm "glue"surface. When i but coil back idle was horrible banging. Smells *fook* rich and engine was shaking...


I just ordered new icm with same number, i didnt found anything numbers on coil and there was no same number coil what was the icm but i ordered still that too.

Hopefully that was the problem, then. Let us know!

_________________

WHITE WHINE - 1992 SSE Supercharged 236.26 ci (.040 Over) 15.090 at 90.2 MPH on old engine w/ slipping trans & melted O2 sensor - Gen 3 M62 and matching TB, Gen 2 Pully, Zillamotorsports Ported LIM, YT 1.72 Roller Rockers, SII FPR & Injectors, Hypertech Thermomaster chip w/ 160 Thermo, TransGo Shift Kit, Infinity/Pioneer Speakers & a 10" Alpine Type R Sub, all the watts, 140 amp Alternator, Ricepipe CAI w/ heatshield, Pilot Angel Eye Foglights, Clear Corners, '02 17" Chrome Bent 5's, Magnaflow F-Body Muffler and Hi-flo Cat, Ceramic Coated Ported Exhaust Manifolds, Fan Override, Monroe Reflex struts, red calipers
2009 G8 GT - Sport Red Metallic, loaded, SOLO Axlebacks, Rotofab Intake, Tuned, autodim mirror, removed intake manifold cover, HSV GTS triple gauge pod, two tone red-hot shifter and HSV SuperSport steering wheel, GXP rear sway bar and diffuser, 3.45 diff and various Camaro suspension bits, LED Taillights

Parts are here about thursday...



Im tried to google crankshaft sensor adjusting but nothing founded yet...

Little bit late to ask but does icm and coil systems from 94-96 pontiac trans port fit buick?

Finland have 3.8 transports several in junkyards and they have single coil systems but year model is years too young.