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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:35 pm 
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Location: allentown pa
Year and Trim: 1988 sse - 80,000 on the clock and my first car...

1995 se wit da sle package- 120,000 on the clock and ticking stronger then ever...
1987 olds delta 88
yesterday I started my delta 88 to run to auto part store only 10 mins away. as soon as I started it, motor had a pretty bad shake.

let it idle for a few but shake did not go away, drove to auto part store and drove back home. car seemed a lil sluggish but still ran.

let car sit over night, then today my wife went to go to work and she let the car warm up and started to drive, made it about half mile from the house and the car started shaking really bad, then the check engine light came on so she pulled over to call me. I told her to try to start the car and it would not start. it would crank but not start at all. so I scanned the computer and got code 13.

( code 13 - Oxygen sensor voltage stays between 0.35 and 0.55 volts for 30 seconds when the TPS signal was above 0.55 volts. The engine had been running for at least 40 seconds with an engine temperature above 110° F. )

so while I got to my wife where she was stranded, I tried to start the car while stepping on the gas, it would sound like it wanted to start but it would not stay running at all.

so I then un plugged the M.A.F ( don't ask me why ). and with m.a.f unplugged I started the car while stepping on the gas and it turned over and stood running. so while it was running I plugged the M.A.F back in and took foot off the gas and it still stayed running.

so I had my wife drive it home. while she was driving home it started shaking again, and smelling like rotten eggs when she got to the has and was parking..


can anybody please help me with this. I need to try to figure this out today and fix it so my wife can safely return back to work..

my Bonneville that I just changed the transmission on runs great but has a bad axel I need to replace before she can drive it.

HELP PLEASE.. THANK YOU.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 10:08 am
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Location: allentown pa
Year and Trim: 1988 sse - 80,000 on the clock and my first car...

1995 se wit da sle package- 120,000 on the clock and ticking stronger then ever...
also when I put my hand under the tail pipe of the exhaust it smells bad like gas.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:32 pm 
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Location: Dearborn, MI
Year and Trim: '93 SSEi
'05 STS-4
'97 Camaro
'97 LeSabre
First thought - bad MAS. Junkyard pick one if you can, they aren't cheap new. Is this an LG3? If so, try to find one off an '86 that doesn't neck down, but that's just a preference.

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I don't know how much boost it takes to blow the tires off. But I know how much I'm going to use!
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Runs:
'93 Pontiac Bonneville SSEi - Twincharged, manual, racecar! Build thread
'97 Chevy Camaro - 3800, T5, T-tops, my DD
'05 Cadillac STS - V8, AWD, her DD
'89 Buick LeSabre Limited - winter DD
'84 GMC Sierra Classic - Twin turbo 3800
'97 Buick LeSabre - L67 project
'92 Pontiac Bonneville SSE future project

Doesn't run:
'87 Buick LeSabre T-type - future victim
'67 Buick LeSabre - future victim


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:46 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 10:08 am
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Location: allentown pa
Year and Trim: 1988 sse - 80,000 on the clock and my first car...

1995 se wit da sle package- 120,000 on the clock and ticking stronger then ever...
you mean m.a.f right ? you said mas lol


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:35 pm 
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Location: Central Illinois
Year and Trim: 1992 SSE
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It could be an injector stuck open, or the fpr failed dramatically, but the maf seems more likely.

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15.090 at 90.2 MPH on old engine w/ slipping trans & melted O2 sensor - Gen 3 M62 and matching TB, Gen 2 Pully, Zillamotorsports Ported LIM, YT 1.72 Roller Rockers, SII FPR & Injectors, Easy Performance Gen 3 Air/Fuel Calibrator, Hypertech Thermomaster chip w/ 160 Thermo, TransGo Shift Kit, Infinity/Pioneer Speakers and 10" Subs, 1300 watts, 140 amp Alternator, Ricepipe CAI w/ heatshield, Pilot Angel Eye Foglights, Clear Corners, '02 17" Chrome Bent 5's, Magnaflow F-Body Muffler and Hi-flo Cat, McCoy Motorsports Ceramic Coated Ported Exhaust Manifolds, Fan Override, PowerSlot Slotted Rotors.
2009 G8 GT - Sport Red Metallic, loaded, SOLO Axlebacks, Rotofab Intake, Tuned, autodim Trailblazer mirror, removed intake manifold cover, HSV GTS triple gauge pod, two tone red-hot shifter and HSV SuperSport steering wheel, GXP rear sway bar and diffuser


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:29 pm 
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Location: Dearborn, MI
Year and Trim: '93 SSEi
'05 STS-4
'97 Camaro
'97 LeSabre
MAF sensor = MAS = mass air flow sensor; the older CSMs referred to them as a MAF sensor. Most '88+ refer to them as MAS.

IDK why I know that.

_________________
I don't know how much boost it takes to blow the tires off. But I know how much I'm going to use!
Image

Runs:
'93 Pontiac Bonneville SSEi - Twincharged, manual, racecar! Build thread
'97 Chevy Camaro - 3800, T5, T-tops, my DD
'05 Cadillac STS - V8, AWD, her DD
'89 Buick LeSabre Limited - winter DD
'84 GMC Sierra Classic - Twin turbo 3800
'97 Buick LeSabre - L67 project
'92 Pontiac Bonneville SSE future project

Doesn't run:
'87 Buick LeSabre T-type - future victim
'67 Buick LeSabre - future victim


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:29 pm 
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Location: Las Cruces, NM
Year and Trim: 1993 Buick Park Avenue
1994 Buick Regal Custom
My first guess was ignition issue, but you should be able to tell if that's the case even with the MAF unplugged.

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1993 Buick Park Avenue - 197k - Some odds and ends done - Simply won't die
1994 Buick Regal - 78k - Bone stock - Always ready for a good kicking
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:26 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 10:08 am
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Location: allentown pa
Year and Trim: 1988 sse - 80,000 on the clock and my first car...

1995 se wit da sle package- 120,000 on the clock and ticking stronger then ever...
maf would make sence being as how it did start after I unplugged maf. but why would maf or ignition problem cause a code 13 ?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:51 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 8:53 am
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Location: Las Cruces, NM
Year and Trim: 1993 Buick Park Avenue
1994 Buick Regal Custom
Because the exhaust isn't hot enough for the o2 sensor to give a reading. Pig rich means colder combustion temps. Colder combustion temps means the o2 is pegged rich, and doesn't cycle in a manner the computer thinks it should, thus the code.

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1993 Buick Park Avenue - 197k - Some odds and ends done - Simply won't die
1994 Buick Regal - 78k - Bone stock - Always ready for a good kicking
1990 Oldsmobile 88 - Gone to a better place


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:06 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:32 pm
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Location: Dearborn, MI
Year and Trim: '93 SSEi
'05 STS-4
'97 Camaro
'97 LeSabre
The MAF is the primary input used to determine the AFR. In this case, the O2 sensor is signifying that it's running lean (less than 0.5v).

The ecm is thinking it should be running 'rich' based on the MAF and TPS readings, so it faults the O2 sensor.

Normally, at about 50% throttle, the AFR should peg 'rich' on the O2 sensor (.8v). I don't know if this is a limitation in the software/OS or just something that wasn't considered as a failure mode. But it's not uncommon for the computer to not be able to recognize a MAF translation or failure unless it's an open circuit.

_________________
I don't know how much boost it takes to blow the tires off. But I know how much I'm going to use!
Image

Runs:
'93 Pontiac Bonneville SSEi - Twincharged, manual, racecar! Build thread
'97 Chevy Camaro - 3800, T5, T-tops, my DD
'05 Cadillac STS - V8, AWD, her DD
'89 Buick LeSabre Limited - winter DD
'84 GMC Sierra Classic - Twin turbo 3800
'97 Buick LeSabre - L67 project
'92 Pontiac Bonneville SSE future project

Doesn't run:
'87 Buick LeSabre T-type - future victim
'67 Buick LeSabre - future victim


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:58 am 
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 10:08 am
Posts: 1634
Location: allentown pa
Year and Trim: 1988 sse - 80,000 on the clock and my first car...

1995 se wit da sle package- 120,000 on the clock and ticking stronger then ever...
RJolly87 wrote:
My first guess was ignition issue, but you should be able to tell if that's the case even with the MAF unplugged.



how would I tell if its an ignition issue or a bad mass air flow sensor ?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:05 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:32 pm
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Location: Dearborn, MI
Year and Trim: '93 SSEi
'05 STS-4
'97 Camaro
'97 LeSabre
If the problem goes away, even though it will run like crap, with the MAF unplugged then the problem was the MAF. If the issue persists after unplugging the sensor then it's not a problem with the sensor.

_________________
I don't know how much boost it takes to blow the tires off. But I know how much I'm going to use!
Image

Runs:
'93 Pontiac Bonneville SSEi - Twincharged, manual, racecar! Build thread
'97 Chevy Camaro - 3800, T5, T-tops, my DD
'05 Cadillac STS - V8, AWD, her DD
'89 Buick LeSabre Limited - winter DD
'84 GMC Sierra Classic - Twin turbo 3800
'97 Buick LeSabre - L67 project
'92 Pontiac Bonneville SSE future project

Doesn't run:
'87 Buick LeSabre T-type - future victim
'67 Buick LeSabre - future victim


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